Dog Community

Posted : 7/8/2007 11:57:15 AM

I bought a 4pd bag this morning. The kibble size is really big for a grain free, and might be too big for my older Pug with a few missing teeth. Kibble size is even bigger than Eagle Pack Holistic chicken, wish it would have been smaller in size, but other wise will see how they do on it. I haven't fed Wellness in a number of years, that was the problem I had with their other foods, kibble size to big for a few of my guys.

Also, the 4 pd bag has a sticker on it that says try me today, offers inside for tomorrow. I would have thought a coupon isdie the bag? I looked, nothing was inside the bag, only the kibble.

Shohin

Posted : 7/9/2007 9:13:33 AM

Interested to know what the pH of the food is (or whatever it is that is related to UTI's) as I seem to recall this being an issue with their Super5Mix, and I'm also interested to hear what the ash level is (i think i read someone is going to email them) . . . .

Sounds good to me so far though! Winston just switched to grain free and is doing well on EVO so far, but I have to make "kibble soup" with each meal because of the ash content.

Luvntzus

Posted : 7/9/2007 9:54:58 AM

Okey dokey, I just called Wellness customer service. I found out that ash is 8%, ph is 7.1-7.2 and that it's find to feed puppies other than large breed puppies. [

]

The ph sounds a little high so I hope that won't be a problem. [

] If all else fails I guess I could add cranberry.

Rick B

Posted : 7/9/2007 12:15:18 PM

For a small breed puppy calcium levels are not a concern.

ORIGINAL: papillon806

I recall a Beagle breeder posting on a nother thread a while back that calcium/ash levels are a concern for bone development in Beagles as well.

I'm not sure of the ash content, but my guess is that it is better than the other grain free foods because it has a lower protein %.

The actual protein, fat and fiber levels cannot be determined. As you pointed out at the bottom of your original post, their ingredient list has minimum levels of protein and fat and maxiumum % of fiber. That makes it impossible to accurately compare against a label/manufacturer who does not list in that manner.

mudpuppy

Posted : 7/9/2007 1:05:06 PM

I think Timberwolf Organics two grain-free offerings are superior to the Wellness Core food. They have lower ash, and they have calcium levels I'd be willing to feed to a large breed puppy.

Luvntzus

Posted : 7/9/2007 1:24:46 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I think Timberwolf Organics two grain-free offerings are superior to the Wellness Core food. They have lower ash, and they have calcium levels I'd be willing to feed to a large breed puppy.

The ingredients being better is a matter of opinion. Also, to me Wild and Natural smells like cow manure and Ocean Blue is fishy. I can't stomach that twice a day every day. [:'(]

pugs2

Posted : 7/9/2007 1:25:28 PM

I recall a Beagle breeder posting on a nother thread a while back that calcium/ash levels are a concern for bone development in Beagles as well.

On the bag, it does say for dogs 1 plus yrs. I

ersonally don't feel safe feeding grain free kibbles to any puppies, better to play it safe once they are out of the major growing stage. They reach that yr. mark soon enough. The Core kibble size is sort of big for most puppies, at least for mine.

pugs2

Posted : 7/9/2007 1:34:22 PM

Also, to me Wild and Natural smells like cow manure

I have read other people saying the same about the smell. I think it smells spicy, at least all the bags I have had. The only thing about the grain free for a couple of my show dogs, they lost weight on it, mostly my one boy we are going to start specialing. My older Pug has been on Ocean Blue for about a month, and doing really well, I don't mind the fish smell, but I have noticed she is smelling a little different than usual!

papillon806

Posted : 7/9/2007 1:59:21 PM

ORIGINAL: DakotasDoode

For a small breed puppy calcium levels are not a concern.
ORIGINAL: papillon806

I recall a Beagle breeder posting on a nother thread a while back that calcium/ash levels are a concern for bone development in Beagles as well.

PM me your email address and I will send you a copy of a study that actually used beagles as their "small/medium breed" test subjects in determining they were not affected by calcium levels during growth.

I'm not sure of the ash content, but my guess is that it is better than the other grain free foods because it has a lower protein %.

The actual protein, fat and fiber levels cannot be determined. As you pointed out at the bottom of your original post, their ingredient list has minimum levels of protein and fat and maxiumum % of fiber. That makes it impossible to accurately compare against a label/manufacturer who does not list in that manner.

Yes, if you want to get technical. I was speaking generally stating that they are most likely lower because of that (hence the most likely). I also want to emphasize that I suggest emailing the company to be sure [

].

Rick B

Posted : 7/9/2007 2:28:32 PM

PM me your email address and I will send you a copy of a study that actually used beagles as their "small/medium breed" test subjects in determining they were not affected by calcium levels during growth.

ORIGINAL: papillon806

I do not doubt that you are accurately referencing a specific study. I was just recalling a breeder's posts here that I'm not sure how to track down with a search or I'd reference it directly. I remember it because it was a surprise to me.

sarah_b

Posted : 7/9/2007 2:31:50 PM

am guessing that the calcium is too high for a pup. I am more familiar with Large Breed puppies, where you want the calcium to be no higher than 1.2%, but I have also read some studies saying that smaller breeds should also not have too much calcium, but I am less familiar with them.

This calcium thing has me concerned. Although I have a "medium" breed, there is a growth spurt that is amazing, and we can see many of the problems large breed pups see. So most of us breeders and people raising young pups feed good quality adult foods (like Canidae, etc). I have recently switched one of my adults to the Nature's Variety Instinct. But, I did email them and ask if it was OK to feed large breed puppies. Their response was -- absolutely! It has been formulated for all size puppies and adults.

Here is the %'s:

Calcium (min): 2.49%
Phosphorus (min): 1.43%

Do I have it wrong.... but are these %'s a bit high for larger fast growing pups??? I am alittle confused now.

pugs2

Posted : 7/9/2007 2:43:03 PM

This calcium thing has me concerned. Although I have a "medium" breed, there is a growth spurt that is amazing, and we can see many of the problems large breed pups see.

This is what concerns me for all size puppies. We take our puppies off puppy food at 12 wks, I think my vet who is a long time Pug breeder does it sooner. She has been doing her own study of hips and keeping Pug puppies off puppy food, and finding they are having clear hips when not fed a puppy food past 12 wks, again, I have to check with her about the age, it might be younger. They might be little guys compared to the Danes, but too much calcium and protein for these little guys can affect bone

roblems.

jessies_mom

Posted : 7/9/2007 2:54:19 PM

Okey dokey, I just called Wellness customer service. I found out that ash is 8%, ph is 7.1-7.2 and that it's find to feed puppies other than large breed puppies.

The ph sounds a little high so I hope that won't be a problem. If all else fails I guess I could add cranberry.

It would be better if it was in the mid 6's, but you can have a urine sample tested after he's been on it a few weeks to see if the urine's too alkaline. I hope he does well on it, and has firm poops.[

]

Nicole

Posted : 7/9/2007 2:57:33 PM

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

Okey dokey, I just called Wellness customer service. I found out that ash is 8%, ph is 7.1-7.2 and that it's find to feed puppies other than large breed puppies. []

The ph sounds a little high so I hope that won't be a problem. [] If all else fails I guess I could add cranberry.

Hi All,

Nicole from Wellness here. Looks like there was a miscommunication about CORE Dry Dog. We would conservatively say that puppies in general should not feed higher protein diets that exceed 1.5% Calcium. This is why we feature a maintenance claim and promote the diet for dogs over 1 year in age. Again, CORE should not be fed to pups.

I am sorry about the confusion. If you have any question feel free to ask!

Nicole
Wellness & Old Mother Hubbard

pugs2

Posted : 7/9/2007 3:06:53 PM

I was doing some comparisons of Core to Timberwolf's grain free. TO does have lower ahs and PH, and lower calcium. Now this making me think should I stick with TO? Wild Natural GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein min. 36%
Crude Fat min. 18%
Crude Fiber max. 2.5%
Moisture max. 9%
Ash max. 5%
Calcium 1.4%
Phosphorous 1.1%
Copper 16 mg/kg
Vitamin A 22,000 IU/kg
Vitamin D 1,200 IU/kg
Vitamin E 350 IU/kg
*Taurine min. .17%
*Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.4%
*Omega-3 Fatty Acids 1.2%
Ocean Blue GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein min. 26%
Crude Fat min. 16%
Crude Fiber max. 3%
Moisture max. 9%
Ash max. 6%
Calcium 1.75%
Phosphorous 0.9%
Copper 16 mg/kg
Vitamin A 22,000 IU/kg
Vitamin D 1,400 IU/kg
Vitamin E 160 IU/kg
*Taurine min. .17%
*Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.4%
*Omega-3 Fatty Acids 1.3%

Wellness CORE for dogs