What's everyone doing with their allergy/IBS dogs??

When I go home I'm going to look at her records and find the name of that antibiotic she was put on. It was a strong one.

 
Okay Lori .............. what you have wrote in this entire post about Willow is LOUIE... I printed it off so I could answer all your questions so that I can hopefully find help talking to you. Somethings gotta give cause the vets are no help. This is something I have to figure out on my own and Im willing to do anything .....
 
I think I will go ahead and have full blood work done on him tomorrow morning. I will tell them Im looking at his White blood cells count. He goes in at 7 am.. My groomer just moved to my vet clinic so its one stop shopping for me now. While he is there they will do anything needed. Oh and I pay royally for this service but its really nice and convenant.
 
Okay here I go... Im going to answer everything here...
 
First I bought the Natures Variety that is grain free but haven't started feeding this .... I can say Louie isn't big on kibble this is something Iv noticed with him. I do want to add that he had been on Natural Balance Duck and Potato for 3 years with homecooking added to it...green beans ... squash.. I even use to cook rabbit with veggies no kibble.. Louie likes it FRESH just made not a day old or he will turn his nose up.... I do the deli meat He had a piece of Ham with cheese before he went to bed lastnight and that was it for the entire day[&o]
Why do you want me to skip Chicken? My specialist said NO chicken because he felt its in the same family as Duck meaning Poltury. My specialist wanted Louie and a different novel protein but when he still wasn't eating after everything I had tried he then said let him have anything he wants so he will eat... WELL HELLO... this isn't getting to the problem ...he had no answers for me anymore and this place is one of the best speciality clinic in the US. It was a matter of me figuring this out. He just put him on pred and the rest is history as you can tell Im this searching and trying to find Help!
 
Iv tried the small bites at certain times of the day...And OH MY GOSH I about fell over with what you wrote about Willow looking at you like your were abusing her...THAT IS LOUIE... He will go and hide if he sees me fixing something for him. Its so awful and sad it kills me.... I can put it close to his mouth and the look on his face is pure torcher and he turns his head.
 
I even took him to a holistic vet that finally told me just pick up his food and when he gets hungry enough he will eat... NEED I SAY MORE?[:@] I dropped her like a bad habit!!!
 
Okay he hates anything fish... Fish ..tuna... sardines... BIG NO with Louie.
 
I always warm my dogs food up...
 
Okay now get this... out of my 5 dogs... Louie and Mattie my Westies LOVE to eat late... they much rather eat at 9pm than any other time of the day. Is this bad?
 
I popped open and can of W/D and all 5 dogs went crazy eating it tonight...so I opened another can... since they all have to be at the groomers at 7 am they won't get breakfast and they will be fine after eating this tonight. But I kid you not they would love to eat this late everynight. Louie was wanting to eat tonight.. he was right there while I was handing out little pieces of it to everyone.
 
I had been using Bert's enzyme... but how do you get a dog to take a tablet when when he won't even eat... My other dogs eat them right up with their meals. What is Fresh Digest? I think the Enzyme helps Louie but he needs to really eat it before the meal... the company is out of stock right now so Im on backorder for it.
 
Anyone else reading this... Do your dogs like to eat late and is it bad for them?
 
Sorry if I have any typo's Im tired and typing by poor lighting....
 
thanks for your help
Kim
 
 

Interesting---Oscar would eat beef readily, as well---never had a problem with it even though at the time I was told it may be too hard for him to digest and that chicken would be a better choice--not the case. We did use venison at first to stabilize him (it was a novel protein for him), but even now, he does best on beef.

 
 
Okay so how do I know if he isn't doing well on Chicken??? Im getting so darn confused.  I went and bought the Nature's Variety
medallions today... I steamed them  and  cooked the outside and left them raw in the middle.. I want to go slow with the dogs. I use to feed this 3 years ago. Again Louie was never crazy about this either.. frankly he has never been crazy over anything... Im scared to even think of switching Max so IM not going too.My IBD Scottie Max does fabulous on NB Duck and Potato kibble...I had him on Fromm Duck and Potato and he had soft serve stools... and he does well eating the W/D as a treat. His eyeballs pop out he loves it so much but I feel like Im giving them crap when I do this...   His stools are good thou....
 
It seems with 5 dogs its hard cause 3 have issues....

I have on more question before I sign off tonight...
 
Alot of you seem to know the triggers... Barley... wheat... oats...etc.... I don't know Louies triggers. If I did I would avoid them.
 
I kinda know Max's... If I stray a little he will get runny stools... Max is my Scottie that is my IBD dog.
I think of Louie as more of my IBS dog...
 
How I got started on NB duck and Potato was all because of Max. I figured it would be easier to feed all 5 of my dogs the same cause it gets crazy other wise... and I knew it was a good food. Plus My Scottie Alley who is under my post name is an entire other work in progress[] Sassy's Mom Cathy can atest to that as we are in the same boat with our dogs... so I put her on NB too and she has done great.
 
Alley was the reason in the year 2001 that I started doing raw for 3 years. I did rescue and they all believed that was the way to go and with all of Alley issues they thought for sure it was the answer. Well I hate to say it wasn't for her.. the answer ended up being a fabulous specialist that I just got hooked up with this past  year and she is doing great.
 
But with all this food scare and YES after watching Oprah the other day my fickle mind thinks raw or homecooked is really the only way to go so now IM back at it with Natures Variety.
 
Okay Iv babbled on and on... Im just so thrilled to find people who understand and more than anything to have found Lori and Willow. IM hoping that all my searching hasn't been in vain that some where there has got to be an answer for Louie. He just never looks like he feels well.
 
Lori did Willow look like that... Like she just didn't feel well. I look at Louie and ask him who pooped in his lunch pale today as he looks so sad[&o] It rips me up....
 
nite all.. I will be checking back in the am...

One more thing about Louie - this is something I went through with my cat that had such bad allergies. Before we figured out what it was, I felt the same way about feeding time, like we were spiraling out of control, and she was just running away if we put food out for her.

It turned out that it wasn't necessarily that she was picky, it was just that eating hurt her and she was practically starving herself to avoid the discomfort of eating.

I have IBS myself and it is totally way not fun. I can't imagine what it's like in a dog that has such a speedy gi tract anyway. The contractions must be pretty awful. I would probably not be the pleasantly plump person I currently am, if I had that kind of motivation to avoid eating. []

I think what you want to focus on is breaking the cycle of eating/hurting in some way. Don't obsess over providing perfect nutrition or organic food - just don't feed anything from China! [] You know what he's avoided in the past and what seems to work. You know what makes him nervous about eating. Don't be discouraged if you seem to find something and then that doesn't work either after a while. Keep an open mind. It doesn't matter what it is, just get him eating something: canned tripe, plain rice, oatmeal, jarred baby food meat, Milk Bones, Wonder Bread - I'm just throwing stuff out there, although I think all of that may be problematic because you've ruled out grains - but you see what I mean. ANYTHING that's not actually harmful and that doesn't seem to trigger his discomfort.

Also, one thing that helped my allergic kitty immensely while we were still trying to figure out her problems. Get locally grown honey from the health food store and syringe about one ml (cc) into his mouth about thirty minutes before a meal. I do this for lambs, too, that are not eating - it perks up their appetite immensely. You just open his mouth a little like you are looking at his teeth, pop the syringe in, and squirt - the honey will stick to his mouth. Most dogs enjoy this after the first time. []

One other thing that might help, if you don't do this already. Change his feeding routine, especially if he currently eats out in the open. If you don't already, try offering him food in a crate (assuming he's crate trained). Being quiet and out of your sight might help him relax - and at least in a crate he can't run away from his food!

Good luck!

It turned out that it wasn't necessarily that she was picky, it was just that eating hurt her and she was practically starving herself to avoid the discomfort of eating.

 
Exactly, in the case of Oscar---we determined, that in addition to grains and potato, anything hard--kibble, biscuits, further irritated  his GI tract--fresh, soft foods were the way to go.
.

  I don't know Louies triggers. If I did I would avoid them.

 
The only way to know is to do an elimination diet---using one meat protein source and one carb source (if necessary) that he has not been exposed to. You need to feed this exclusively for approximately 6 weeks--no extras.  At this point, though, you may not have too many options left-----as becca indicated, don't worry if the meal is balanced at this point---you just want him to eat. 
 

Okay so how do I know if he isn't doing well on Chicken???

 
At the time, eating chicken would cause a lot of stomach noises and produce soft stools.  Not so with venison or beef.  He can now eat chicken with no problems--he just doesn't enjoy it as much as beef.
 

Change his feeding routine, especially if he currently eats out in the open.

 
This is a great suggestion----through no fault of your own, you  may have made mealtime stressful for Louie--I often did this, as I would stress out over whether or not he would eat, I'm sure Oscar could sense my stress, and be confused about eating.  I no longer feed Oscar from a bowl---he used to approach his bowl with such trepidation, staring at it for a few minutes before eating or walking away---I now feed all his meals in a Kong or busy buddy---I fill it with his meal, and let him eat in whatever setting I choose---living room, den, etc...---he loves to stalk his food--since this is a fun activity for him, eating became an enjoyable thing. 
 
 
 
 

It doesn't matter what it is, just get him eating something: canned tripe, plain rice, oatmeal, jarred baby food meat, Milk Bones, Wonder Bread - I'm just throwing stuff out there, although I think all of that may be problematic because you've ruled out grains - but you see what I mean. ANYTHING that's not actually harmful and that doesn't seem to trigger his discomfort.

 
Okay Im laughing cause Iv done all that you have listed except wonder bread..LOL[] He won't even eat baby food as a friend of mine has very good luck with her Westie eating this.... She has alot of the same problems as I do but not to the degree of Louie and how Willow has been in the past.
 
To be honest I don't know what his triggers are??? Once I think Iv found something and he starts eatting good.... IT ALL STOPS with a big HAULT[&o]
 
For awhile he was eating Royal Canin special #30 with no problem but his poop was awful and so were the other Westies poop[:'(] so I got them off that crap. But then again Louie might have been eating like that cause he was on pred.. now that is is off of it now for about 3 weeks all the old habits are returning....  Its so painful to watch....
 
I beginning to think I need to make him a ham sandwich at night ..LOL He loves the ham....

Also, one thing that helped my allergic kitty immensely while we were still trying to figure out her problems. Get locally grown honey from the health food store and syringe about one ml (cc) into his mouth about thirty minutes before a meal. I do this for lambs, too, that are not eating - it perks up their appetite immensely.

 
I had been doing that too.. and also with White corn syrup .... no luck ... I thought it would perk him up to cause its like there blood sugar gets low from not eating and once he does eat he acts like he simply can't get enough....but I don't over feed him. I give him that amount and that is it or he will simply over stuff himself...

One other thing that might help, if you don't do this already. Change his feeding routine, especially if he currently eats out in the open. If you don't already, try offering him food in a crate (assuming he's crate trained). Being quiet and out of your sight might help him relax - and at least in a crate he can't run away from his food!

 
Iv done this too... Are  you sick of me saying been there done that....I really appreciate all this info... When all the other dogs are done eating that is when he will eat ....he is in a seperate room and keeps coming out to watch the others so Iv even shut the door... when I shut the door then he WON"T eat.. if I open the door and he see the Scotties are done eating then he seems to like to growl at them and run to his dish and eat everything up... its sooooooooooooo weird...

This is a great suggestion----through no fault of your own, you may have made mealtime stressful for Louie--I often did this, as I would stress out over whether or not he would eat, I'm sure Oscar could sense my stress, and be confused about eating. I no longer feed Oscar from a bowl---he used to approach his bowl with such trepidation, staring at it for a few minutes before eating or walking away---I now feed all his meals in a Kong or busy buddy---I fill it with his meal, and let him eat in whatever setting I choose---living room, den, etc...---he loves to stalk his food--since this is a fun activity for him, eating became an enjoyable thing.

 
Iv done all this too.... No bowls anymore for Louie so I had to go to a plate or just put it right on the floor. Messy but whatever works. Iv switched up his eating areas. He will not eat alone without the other dogs. He seems to like the competition of someone meaning the scotties might try to get his food and he is like NO WAY BUDDY.... then he eats.
 
I hear NO stomach noise or loose stools from Louie on the chicken... In fact I never hear tummy noise.
 
When I decided to get him check out was when he was having runny stools and I was finding blood in them... talk about scary.... That is when I PULLED HIM OFF Duck... NO MORE DUCK and sometimes Rabbit... That is why I went the Venison route which he wouldn't touch... then the fish route... wouldn't touch... then I went with all kinds of other foods.. NO GO... so the specialist said.. let him have what he wants cause he needs to eat... SO I got the Royal Canine and added some cooked chicken to it... The the soft serve poops...
 
Sooooooooooooooooooooooo I went with Kumpi....and his stools got better but I can tell he doesn't want kibble... So I went to W/D..... canned...
 
 

Sounds like chicken is fine---why not feed cooked chicken and add canned w/d to keep his stools firm?  Feed this as your "elimination diet"----nothing else for a period of six weeks---again, don't wory about balancing at this time--you just need to stabilize him and keep things as simple as possible.

Also, don't worry too much if he decides one day, all of a sudden, he does not want to eat---he may be full and "resting" his GI tract. I used to call Oscar my "every other day dog"---when we were going through this with him, he would eat fine for a few days and then not eat for one day----vet said this was common---not to force the feeding issue---he would then eat the next day after his "fast".  He still goes through periods where some days he just does not eat as much as others--no worries. 

I know you mentioned that your dogs like to eat late---Oscar is similar--he does not eat in the morning----and, now usually eats his first meal around 3-4 o'clock.  He eats again around 6-7 o'clock, with a snack before bed. 

Sounds like chicken is fine---why not feed cooked chicken and add canned w/d to keep his stools firm? Feed this as your "elimination diet"----nothing else for a period of six weeks---again, don't wory about balancing at this time--you just need to stabilize him and keep things as simple as possible.

 
Awesome...this is what IM doing...iin fact I have chicken in the crockpot cooking.  In fact Im using W/D to help me move the other dogs slowly over to a raw diet.... I don't want any upsets... But IM leaving Max my IBD on NB duck and Potato...
 
I don't want anyone to think that I keep saying.. Been there done that... Cause I want help. IF there is anything anyone of you guys think I should try to do then by all means share....
 
Louie is having his bloodwork done this morning.... Im going to pay attention the white blood count like Lori told me too.
 
On another note... I wish I had a license to kill... Know were I could get that[]?? When I was at the vets there was a puppy that someone found and dropped of yesterday. They think he is a Rodeisian Ridgeback. Its just a puppy around 6 to 8 months old and weights only 12 pds...You could see every rib and bone on this baby...and he was crying and crying... I think my Vet is going to keep him... IM just sick for this dog... I hurt all over for this baby....

used to call Oscar my "every other day dog"---when we were going through this with him, he would eat fine for a few days and then not eat for one day----vet said this was common---not to force the feeding issue---he would then eat the next day after his "fast". He still goes through periods where some days he just does not eat as much as others--no worries.

I know you mentioned that your dogs like to eat late---Oscar is similar--he does not eat in the morning----and, now usually eats his first meal around 3-4 o'clock. He eats again around 6-7 o'clock, with a snack before bed.

 
This is LOUIE... in fact my other Westie Mattie never really cared for breakfast either. Louie like his first meal of the day at 3 or 4 also... like Oscar Louie is our every other day off and on dog as well. I also feed Louie again around 7 or 8 cause he seems to be wanting something again at that time.  We are very active people... we live on alot of property plus we take the dogs on hikes alot and they love it...
 
I was noticing in the picture Becca has on her post and I see her Great Pyr... I so miss mine.... I found her living under a truck on Valentines Day.. someone dumped her if you can imagine... I later found she had been there for 2 weeks and nobody was feeding her . Long story short... she didn't work out with my dogs after having her for a month...well my one Dog Mattie and her came to a point of horrible fights... LOUIE LOVED HER with all his heart.... he use to wrestle with her .. chew on her ears... I named her Rosie.. she was only 6 months old... I found her a wonderful home in Nebraska with a couple that lost their Great Pry and were wanting another... What great dogs they are ....

I want your thoughts on this .....that is everyone reading []
 
I just got off the phone with my Allergy specialist cause I was thinking of doing the blood test on Louie to find out what he could be allergic too. Pretty much the tech whom I LOVE told me those test are pretty bogus... But she will talk to the dr about Louie and he can consult with the internal Dr. next door that did all the testing on Louie... I was telling her how other people have had them done to see what there dog was allergic too as far as Wheat and rice and such. I explained to her that I don't want to keep adding an irritant when feeding him....
 
Im on a mission to get to the bottom of this...(No pun intended) I know lots of people suffer with IBD....its a horrible thing to have... My brother suffers from it and I have several friends. I tell them all to look into "Colonics" oh well.. .you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink... this is how Louie is with food.
 
Kim
 

I think the canned w/d with chicken toppings is a perfect idea.  Willow ate canned i/d with either a meat I made or Evanger's for a long time.  I would do it for a long time, more than 6 or 8 weeks especially if he's pooping normally on it and acting well.  Then you can slowly start adding one new thing at a time to see how he reacts.  But, again, I can't stress this enough, don't be in a rush.  Don't worry about what anyone says about w/d. 

PS--As far as eating times.  Willow hates to eat in the morning.  But, she's one of these furry kids that will vomit bile if she goes too long without food.  So, you know those toppers I mentioned I add to her food, well she gets a bit of those in the am or another healthy commerical snack.  But, you need to do the meat topping for awhile, you don't want to add in anything else until you see stability on w/d and chicken.  I was also adding Fresh Digest, which helps with digestion you can see what it's all about at [linkhttp://www.inclover.com]www.inclover.com[/link].  I'm still adding it but hope to try to phase it out over the summer.
 
Anyway, back to the feeding times, I feed her before I leave between 12 and 1pm.  Then late at night after I'm home for awhile midnight or later sometimes.  That's what she wants and it works for my schdedule.  Now, that she's been feeling good for awhile we can sometimes deviate from this depending on our day.  I think you'll notice after he's feeling better you'll be able to feed him at different times if needed.
 
I'm also sending you a PM.
Lori

I had two dogs that would eat, oh, once every other day or so. One really was too thin all the time, but Trim, my IBS/ulcer dog, was a little fatty. I finally stopped fighting it as long as she stayed a healthy weight - I think she did need to rest her system. She did start eating on a regular schedule once we got "over the hump".

I hope you can find your answers soon.