Too extreme with food choices

LOL I totally agree with you

Makes you wonder how in the world so many dogs lived to be so old, healthy til the end back when there was no such thing as premium food, dog food cookbooks, etc.  They did just fine on whatever kibble was  around and if lucky (to them) table scraps.I know of some dogs belonging to friends that never saw a vet in it's life.  They held a vaccination clinic for rabies vax at the school, $1 a shot and back then the ag boys helped vaccinate.  Back then many dogs were lost to thinns like hook worms, distemper as the vax was not all that great, and I suppose 3ven heartworms were around back then.
 
My Dad had many setters and pointers live and hunt to ripe old ages when all they had was scraps. Fat, salt, bacon drippings, gravy, cooked bones, etc.  I can't help but wonder.

I'm definitely with you on that one Lori. The other day the local radio program had a thing on the news all day about how so many people were experimenting with cooking for their pets instead of buying commercial food, in light of the wheat gluten fiasco. The main jist of the story was "Don't do it! Dogs need precise, balanced nutrition and only a trained nutritionist can formulate a food for your dog!"

This is true to some of extent of cats but dogs are scavengers, for pete's sake. And why is it that I as a mother am trustworthy enough to figure out a balanced diet for my growing children, but am too stupid to create a nutritious diet for my healthy dogs?

I wish nutritionists and vets would focus on getting the information out there that people need to feed their dogs in a healthy manner, instead of spending their time running down holistic nutrition choices. Right now there's a lot of people running scared and doing stuff like feeding their pets diets of canned fish and hamburger. Wouldn't it be nice if they'd get out there and tell the press, "Here's where you can find out about the basics of a home prepared diet? Here's a book, here's a website. Here's a food pyramid for dogs. . . ." But of course the pet food industry wouldn't let them do that, I'm sure.

ORIGINAL: brookcove

I'm definitely with you on that one Lori. The other day the local radio program had a thing on the news all day about how so many people were experimenting with cooking for their pets instead of buying commercial food, in light of the wheat gluten fiasco. The main jist of the story was "Don't do it! Dogs need precise, balanced nutrition and only a trained nutritionist can formulate a food for your dog!"

This is true to some of extent of cats but dogs are scavengers, for pete's sake. And why is it that I as a mother am trustworthy enough to figure out a balanced diet for my growing children, but am too stupid to create a nutritious diet for my healthy dogs?

I wish nutritionists and vets would focus on getting the information out there that people need to feed their dogs in a healthy manner, instead of spending their time running down holistic nutrition choices. Right now there's a lot of people running scared and doing stuff like feeding their pets diets of canned fish and hamburger. Wouldn't it be nice if they'd get out there and tell the press, "Here's where you can find out about the basics of a home prepared diet? Here's a book, here's a website. Here's a food pyramid for dogs. . . ." But of course the pet food industry wouldn't let them do that, I'm sure.

I agree with everything you said, ESPECIALLY what I've bolded. Sometimes I think that I'm a "Pageant Mom" with my dog. She gets bathed once a week (which is a lot for a dog, especially a short hair dog like mine), she eats the FINEST of super premium dog foods. I am constantly changing her food and now I'm using up meat that I had bought for her by crockpotting some kibble topper for her! And guess what??? She STILL has skin issues and soft stools without the aid of Prozyme. Granted, she looks a TON better than when I first got her. I take her to training once every two weeks and if I had the weekly $40 to spare, she'd be going every week! I buy her new collars trying to find one that won't rub her neck raw because she has that extra bully skin that hangs on her neck and all collars seem to rub her neck raw.

And what am I doing??? I'm throwing all of this crap at her to improve her when she's a dog that will eat ANYTHING I put in front of her. The training she DOES need (because I want her to be a therapy dog and we're making progress) and the collars are a legit concern because I don't want a sore on her neck (which she has now). But the food?

How did dogs survive BEFORE the making of commercial dog food? Off table scraps, right? Didn't they survive pretty darn well, too? Nobody balanced their table scraps properly for their dogs. No one added a calcium supplement PERFECTLY or added a b-complex here and vitamin C there. Oh, and let's not forget vitamin E. I know, I know, they survived, but no one believes they THRIVED.
I have a copy of a picture I scanned from an old train book my dad has. I scanned it because it shows people coming off a train in 1974 and above their heads is a GIANT advertisement for Alpo. ALPO.
I know how these things change and people gain new knowledge because I'm learning about how this has happened for the development of children, in my child growth and development class. They're learning just how much the brain develops correctly through certain stimuli and how important nutrition is and neurons and mylenation and all of that good stuff.

But, my god, I feel like I need a vacation from all of the information and all that's now available. And nobody but me does it to me. I have to honestly have a good chuckle at myself. I get obsessed over what my children consume and do because I want to make sure I am aiding in the proper brain development for them. I get obsessed over what my dog consumes and I want to make sure she's getting the proper amount of exercise and, and, and!
oh, wow, I'm ready for a nap already.

Well said, Brookcove!
 
I belong to Monica Segal's K9Kitchen Yahoo group, and while I really admire her knowledge and willingness to share it, the talk of all those spreadsheets and percentages and ratios makes my eyes cross and my brain hurt.  I believe you do have to do some research and have some knowledge of what it takes to feed a dog properly, but I don't think it has to be so precise and complicated that it takes over your whole life.

As far as creating a healhty balanced diet I think is is a lot more simple than we often make it out to be.  However, with this whole recall scare, a lot of people are feeding now diets of just chicken and rice and whatever the family ate for dinner that night  etc... and over time that will be unbalanced (calcium deficiency etc..) because most people nowadays think of their dogs as human family members and will feed them like humans, while back in the day, dogs were dogs and got meat, fat and bones like Sandra pointed out and were probably pretty healthy.
 
My brother in law works for a large company that makes baby food as one of the products, and he said since the recall, all the employees have been coming in to the company store and buying baby food for their pets and have realized it so much cheaper, and they trust it more than the pet food companies, and that's what they will feed from now on.  That will not be healthy long term.
 
My mother in law fed her beagle half cheap foods like gainesburgers and come and get it, and half whatever they ate for dinner that night which would consist of things like lasagna, or chicken cutlets, and that dog died at age 11 from diabetes and a pancreatic tumor.  I find it hard to believe that the dog would not have had a few more years left in him if fed a proper diet.
 
So I do think it definately gets a little too crazy worrying about this and that.  It's really not that complicated, as long as dogs are fed like dogs (diet of mostly meat and bone (or calcium sup) supplemented with veggies etc) and not like people.

Amen Brothers and Sisters!
 
Yes, a proper diet is essential to all living things for optimum health, but lets not drive ourselves crazy over it.

totally agree - I suppose with a smaller dog things can have more impact (too much fat etc) or some dogs that react poorly to certain things but I know that my beast isn't going to keel over from eating a pigs ear, a cat turd,  grass, a potato chip etc.  As Brookcove said they are scavengers by nature and my boy can scavenge with the best of them []

As for the warning about a balanced diet I actually think its a good idea to put out.  True many people are educated enough to eat properly and feed their children nutritiously but the diet of Americans is patheticly unhealthy in general and many people don't think a dog needs a proper diet.  So if the children of this country are increasingly obese and eating poorly (lack of nutrition not calories) despite people KNOWING they should eat properly, it can't be a bad thing to suggest that dogs eat a balanced diet. JMO

ha! Love this thread. I admit I'm guilty though. I don't know what it is but I feel like I worry more about my dog's food being healthy than I do my own eating habits! I should really change my priorities eh?

I agree, I know that I've been one to worry WAY too much about all the little details. I'm tired of feeling like I'm going to pull my hair out. lol Now I'm just sticking with EP Holistic and of course I'll keep up on recalls, help people learn how to select a health food and stuff like that, but basically I'm taking a great big breather from worrying about dog food. []

I was reading this one recipe and it was 1/4 teaspoon this. 1/8 teaspoon this, etc etc, with 5 ounces of round turkey, 1 ounce of beef liver, etc, etc  , 1/2 ounce and then 1 teaspoon this weekly, 1 /2 teaspoon that twice weekly.  I found that a bit much.  i took nutirtion in high school and no human meals were so detailed down to something once or twice a week.  And as i said, when my Dad was a very young man, they didn't buy dog food, but fed table scraps and his dogs lived long lives, hunted  til the end.  And I know farm cooking--fried, fried, fried, lots of butter added, lots of bacon drippings added, etc.  And it didn't seem to hurt my dad's setters and pointers.  i don't know why Daddy actually started buying dog chow but our dogs were fed it as far back as i can remember and they didn't get scraps, our large family ate everything on the table.

ORIGINAL: brookcove

This is true to some of extent of cats but dogs are scavengers, for pete's sake. And why is it that I as a mother am trustworthy enough to figure out a balanced diet for my growing children, but am too stupid to create a nutritious diet for my healthy dogs?

Well, if you look around at kids these days, a vast number of parents can't even feed their kids properly... YOU are trustworthy, but is everyone?

ORIGINAL: brookcove
I wish nutritionists and vets would focus on getting the information out there that people need to feed their dogs in a healthy manner, instead of spending their time running down holistic nutrition choices. Right now there's a lot of people running scared and doing stuff like feeding their pets diets of canned fish and hamburger. Wouldn't it be nice if they'd get out there and tell the press, "Here's where you can find out about the basics of a home prepared diet? Here's a book, here's a website. Here's a food pyramid for dogs. . . ." But of course the pet food industry wouldn't let them do that, I'm sure.

The sad fact of the matter is that most vets don't know. We've trusted companies like Hills and Purina to do all the work for us for so long, that the majority don't have the slightest clue how to make a nutritious home-cooked meal for pets. Some of the home-made allergy diets sent home with owners at other vet schools are scary, and lead to disasterous results when fed long-term because the owners didn't ask if it was appropriate for longer than just a food trial.

If I had a client who wanted to make a home-cooked meal for their dogs, I wouldn't tell them how to do it, I'd send them here. Even with as much as I think I know, I wouldn't trust myself to something that important...

 The nutritionists have to do what is best for their boss, and I suppose thats understandable if they want to keep their jobs.

I agree Lori!  I think that is why I get so angry on this thread a lot when people are knocking brands that are not exactly what they think is the best.  Best for one dog and might not be best for another.
We talk about it day after day here and even WE can't all agree on what is best or too much of one ingredient or not enough of another.
I do believe we should be trying to balance our pets food if we are home cooking, we know so much more than we did years ago. But its true,, dogs had long good lives eating what ever they were fed back years ago.  

I belong to Monica Segal's K9Kitchen Yahoo group, and while I really admire her knowledge and willingness to share it, the talk of all those spreadsheets and percentages and ratios makes my eyes cross and my brain hurt. I believe you do have to do some research and have some knowledge of what it takes to feed a dog properly, but I don't think it has to be so precise and complicated that it takes over your whole life.

I'm on her list, too and I love it!  I think it is important to know about all the little details if you're going to homecook, and putting things in a spreadsheet really helps to bring deficiencies to light.
There are some pretty important little details that I've learned on that list and from her books, like the fact that  iodine excess in puppies under 3 months old can cause permanent thyroid damage- and I'm sure plenty of people throw kelp supplements into their homemade food without ever thinking of this... 
Excess calcium during pregnancy can cause eclampsia and uterine inertia, and excess calcium in large breed puppies can wreak havoc.  Even if the diet has a normal amount of calcuim, if the diet also has too much vitamin D that can cause excess calcium to be absorbed and all of the other problems that go along with having too much calcium. 
Too much copper interferes with zinc absorption, so you could be giving the dog plenty of zinc, but if he's also getting lots of canned fish and other copper conatining foods, that zinc may not be being used by the body and major skin problems can result...
 
Maybe it's just how my mind works, but I love knowing all the details and how the different nutrients interact with each other and the ideal ratios of zinc:copper, zinc:iron, sodiumotassium, etc...  I guess it's possible to feed a varied diet and have it meet all the dog's needs, but I like to be sure.  Dog food doesn't take over my life, I see it as one of my hobbies and I really enjoy learning about it and making those spreadsheets
 
I do agree, though, that people are too picky about individual ingredients. No one seems to look at the big picture.  The big picture is that, no commercial food is going to provide ideal nutrition for your dog. The dog food industry is policed by the dog food industry.  AAFCO guidelines are based on NRC guidelines that are changed by petfood makers to increase profitability, for example, by lowering protein requirements.  Kibble is kibble- it is dried pellets of processed foods.  I don't care what's in it- that's what it is.  Yes, some are much better than others.  But it's still kibble...