Nutro comparable to Iams?

agree, to me many of these formulations are starting to look like some sort of hippie food from the 1960's instead of dog food.

Totally agree about that. Plus, I don't like the fact that we think we can *know* exactly how good a food will be by looking at ingredients. In the end, I think feeding trials and actual research is better than just looking at ingredients. I know my dogs have done better on some "bad" foods, like Euk, that they have on "good" foods like some by Natura.

Not to mention, all dogs are different. I've seen people in a panic because they had to feed their dog "garbage" like Euk Low Residue due to health issues. But I found that particualr food to be extremely helpful for my Dal who has colitis. I did switch him to Canidae Platinum due to availability issues, but "good" food like regular Canidae and California Natural made him extremely ill. How "good" is a food that gives a dog mucousy, bloody stools and severe pain?

ORIGINAL: papillon806

 And yes, I am aware that chicken is primarily water, but between the two of them IAMS does have more total animal protein with the others added.  Nutro might have a meal source as first...but that is it.  Because of that, it is more "grainy" than the other. 

I'm not sure I'm following how the Iams has more animal protein than the Nutro, when the first significant source of animal protein does not appear until the 4 ingredient, and there are 2 grain ingredients before it that are significant sources of protein that must be making up a decent portion of the crude protein percentage.

I don't like the fact that we think we can *know* exactly how good a food will be by looking at ingredients.

 
I agree there are different grades or levels of ingredients and you cannot tell the quality from just looking at the label, there are very poor chicken meals that use a lot of bone and have a high water content, and there are really good by-product meals which are highly digestible, very dense with very little bone.  I have read where some manufacturers go to the same meal distributors and get there chicken and turkey meals mixed before they recieve it, while others by them seperately and then mix them while making the food, in that case, manufacturer A calls it poultry meal, while manufacturer B calls it chicken meal and turkey meal, when in actuality there are identical, and those types of things can go on with virtually any ingredient.

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: papillon806

And yes, I am aware that chicken is primarily water, but between the two of them IAMS does have more total animal protein with the others added.  Nutro might have a meal source as first...but that is it.  Because of that, it is more "grainy" than the other. 

I'm not sure I'm following how the Iams has more animal protein than the Nutro, when the first significant source of animal protein does not appear until the 4 ingredient, and there are 2 grain ingredients before it that are significant sources of protein that must be making up a decent portion of the crude protein percentage.

Look at it this way....even though the water is in the chicken it is still "a significant source of protein."  If you looked at it with the water weight included, it would move one way down the ingredient list based on weight percentages of average grains versus average meat sources with water included.  With 4 grains following the meal (as in Nutro), you would move it down 2 spots based on weight percentages (because they spliced rice into three different things, it is more weight than the lamb meal since it is a bulk of one ingredient they are allowed to split into each seperate part of it--I'm sure you've heard of this concept).  Highligthed now are the animal proteins again (taking out the source of fat since it has no protein value).

Iams would read
"Corn Meal, Chicken, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Chicken Flavor, Fish Meal, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product

Nutro would read
Rice Flour, Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Rice Bran, Oatmeal, Soybean Oil, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Dried Kelp (source of Iodine)

If given the option of feeding my dog a food that's main ingredient was corn or rice....I would choose corn.  Since (as some even mentioned) rice does not have nearly as many digestible nutrients as corn, and the use of rice as a main ingredient can cause major drops in blood glucose levels. 

ORIGINAL: papillon806

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: papillon806

And yes, I am aware that chicken is primarily water, but between the two of them IAMS does have more total animal protein with the others added.  Nutro might have a meal source as first...but that is it.  Because of that, it is more "grainy" than the other. 

I'm not sure I'm following how the Iams has more animal protein than the Nutro, when the first significant source of animal protein does not appear until the 4 ingredient, and there are 2 grain ingredients before it that are significant sources of protein that must be making up a decent portion of the crude protein percentage.

Look at it this way....even though the water is in the chicken it is still "a significant source of protein."  If you looked at it with the water weight included, it would move one way down the ingredient list based on weight percentages of average grains versus average meat sources with water included.  With 4 grains following the meal (as in Nutro), you would move it down 2 spots based on weight percentages (because they spliced rice into three different things, it is more weight than the lamb meal since it is a bulk of one ingredient they are allowed to split into each seperate part of it--I'm sure you've heard of this concept).  Highligthed now are the animal proteins again (taking out the source of fat since it has no protein value).

Iams would read
"Corn Meal, Chicken, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Chicken Flavor, Fish Meal, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product

Nutro would read
Rice Flour, Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Rice Bran, Oatmeal, Soybean Oil, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Dried Kelp (source of Iodine)

If given the option of feeding my dog a food that's main ingredient was corn or rice....I would choose corn.  Since (as some even mentioned) rice does not have nearly as many digestible nutrients as corn, and the use of rice as a main ingredient can cause major drops in blood glucose levels. 

Okay, I agree with you to a point. Iams may contain more protien, but most of it or at least half of it comes from grain sources.  On the other hand Nutro doesn't contain much protien at all.

On the corn issue, just like with rice there are various differnt qualities of corn.  Both can be fillers depending on what part they use and how they are worded.  Niether Iams or Nutro Natural Choice is using a filler form of rice or corn.

I don't believe that corn is bad as a meal or ground.  I know that it is a more nutrition grain than brewers rice or filler forms of rice.

But I'd rather see brown rice than corn meal.

I wouldn't feed a food that used rice hulls or corn hulls/corn bran/ corn cellulose because all of these are fillers.

I prefer not to give my dog hot dog meat for every meal of his life.  Unless a company says, and Iams doesn't, what kind of by product they are using, why should I take the risk of feeding my dog a diet of bones and ligaments.

If you want to take this from the perspective of wolves, the alfa wolves get the nutrition packed internal organs, the underdogs in the pack get the ligaments and brains and the scraps off the bones.  Why?...so the alpha wolves will have a better chance of survival.

One last thing, you said that rice "can cause major drops in glucose levels."  In some dogs, grain protien sources can cause siezures.  Whether it's rice gluten or corn gluten, I'd prefer to give my dog meat protien for the majority of the protien in his diet.

So, in reflection, I'll have to say that Iams and Nutro are not great choices.  In my new opinion, they are both of mediocor sp? quality with equal but different faults.

I wouldn't feed either.

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo


Okay, I agree with you to a point. Iams may contain more protien, but most of it or at least half of it comes from grain sources.  On the other hand Nutro doesn't contain much protien at all.

On the corn issue, just like with rice there are various differnt qualities of corn.  Both can be fillers depending on what part they use and how they are worded.  Niether Iams or Nutro Natural Choice is using a filler form of rice or corn.

I don't believe that corn is bad as a meal or ground.  I know that it is a more nutrition grain than brewers rice or filler forms of rice.

But I'd rather see brown rice than corn meal.

I wouldn't feed a food that used rice hulls or corn hulls/corn bran/ corn cellulose because all of these are fillers.

I prefer not to give my dog hot dog meat for every meal of his life.  Unless a company says, and Iams doesn't, what kind of by product they are using, why should I take the risk of feeding my dog a diet of bones and ligaments.

If you want to take this from the perspective of wolves, the alfa wolves get the nutrition packed internal organs, the underdogs in the pack get the ligaments and brains and the scraps off the bones.  Why?...so the alpha wolves will have a better chance of survival.

One last thing, you said that rice "can cause major drops in glucose levels."  In some dogs, grain protien sources can cause siezures.  Whether it's rice gluten or corn gluten, I'd prefer to give my dog meat protien for the majority of the protien in his diet.

So, in reflection, I'll have to say that Iams and Nutro are not great choices.  In my new opinion, they are both of mediocor sp? quality with equal but different faults.

I wouldn't feed either.

 
I agree with just about everything you've said (although I'd still pick the Nutro).  Much better than I could have worded it []

 Thanks for all the replies, even if I didn't really understand a large portion of it [] So, after all that, would Chicken Soup be a better food than Nutro then? (I'm just trying to think of brands I know we have locally). Growing up, we never really paid attention to what we were feeding our dogs and I didn't think anything of it until I started reading forums- so actually making food decisions is something new to me [&:] I hate to keep jumping around; I'd like to pick a food and stick with it...but the new rescue has Demodex and it was recommended that I get her on a high quality food, so if Nutro isn't decent I need to change foods again :igh::

With demodex, I would try a food with more skin stuff than Chicken Soup.  Although Chicken Soup is a better choice than Nutro and Iams.

I don't know what kind of foods you can get in your area, but Canidae has alot of skin conditioners in it.

If you go to Pet Smart, they just started carrying a food called By Nature, which is very similair to Canidae only contains more meat and less grains and has tested to be one of the most palatable (or tasty) foods on the market.  It's about the same price as Nutro if not less.

Demodex is not just a skin condition - it's the result of a weakened immune system - switching around isn't going to help. If she is already on the Nutro I would leave her on it and add a good fatty acid supplement. [sm=2cents.gif] Canidae is a great food though. We had good results with it.

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo

a food called By Nature, which is very similair to Canidae only contains more meat and less grains

Does it? How can you tell?

Canidae: Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols)...
24% protein

By Nature: Chicken Meal, Ground Barley, Ground Oats, Ground Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (Stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols)...
22% protein

ORIGINAL: sooner

Demodex is not just a skin condition - it's the result of a weakened immune system - switching around isn't going to help. If she is already on the Nutro I would leave her on it and add a good fatty acid supplement. [sm=2cents.gif] Canidae is a great food though. We had good results with it.

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo

a food called By Nature, which is very similair to Canidae only contains more meat and less grains

Does it? How can you tell?

Canidae: Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols)...
24% protein

By Nature: Chicken Meal, Ground Barley, Ground Oats, Ground Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (Stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols)...
22% protein

My mistake.  I was thinking about their organic formula, which is not priced the same as Canidae, obviously.

ngredients: Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Organic Ground Brown Rice, Organic Ground Oats, Organic Ground Barley, Lamb Meal, Organic Chicken Hydrolysate, Organic Peas, Organic Flaxseed Meal, Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (Stabilized with Mixed Tocopherols), Natural Flavors, Monocalcium Phosphate, Organic Sunflower Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Organic Dried Tomatoes, Organic Cranberries, Organic Carrots, Organic Spinach, Organic Kelp, Dried Chicory Root, Turmeric, Garlic, Niacin Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Rosemary Extract, Dried Yeast Fermentation Solubles.


What's funny though, is By Nature's All Life Stages formula called Active Life has more protein than Canidaes All Life stages 28% vs. 24%.

I like Canidae, by all means, but, now that Pet Smart carries By Nature, By Nature is easier to find and similair.

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo

What's funny though, is By Nature's All Life Stages formula called Active Life has more protein than Canidaes All Life stages 28% vs. 24%.

I like Canidae, by all means, but, now that Pet Smart carries By Nature, By Nature is easier to find and similair.

Most active formulas do have higher protein.

I was thinking about trying their pork & sweet potato, but I've looked in 4 Petsmarts and none here have that brand. Not too surprising, Blue Buffalo showed up a few months after everybody here was talking about it.

ORIGINAL: sooner

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo

What's funny though, is By Nature's All Life Stages formula called Active Life has more protein than Canidaes All Life stages 28% vs. 24%.

I like Canidae, by all means, but, now that Pet Smart carries By Nature, By Nature is easier to find and similair.

Most active formulas do have higher protein.

I was thinking about trying their pork & sweet potato, but I've looked in 4 Petsmarts and none here have that brand. Not too surprising, Blue Buffalo showed up a few months after everybody here was talking about it.

By Nature is changing the name of their All Life Stages from Active to All Life Stages.