Dog Community

Jennifer

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:04:02 PM

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Rude behavior

papillon806

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:05:55 PM

ORIGINAL: ms_paws

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Rude behavior

So what am I learning in grad. school in animal nutrition? What is misskiwi learning in vet school? I guess nothing of any importance...

Luvntzus

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:07:02 PM

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

I would rather have chicken by-products in my dog food than chicken meal. Chicken meal is mostly backs and necks (more bone than meat)...

I'd be very interested to know where you got this information.

Jennifer

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:11:09 PM

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ORIGINAL: papillon806

ORIGINAL: ms_paws

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Rude behavior

So what am I learning in grad. school in animal nutrition? What is misskiwi learning in vet school? I guess nothing of any importance...

Lilea Storm

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:19:18 PM

ORIGINAL: ms_paws

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ORIGINAL: papillon806

ORIGINAL: ms_paws

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Rude behavior

So what am I learning in grad. school in animal nutrition? What is misskiwi learning in vet school? I guess nothing of any importance...

Umm. Gosh. I would really like to hear the opinions of everyone so please don't get out of this thread that I started trying to get information and opinions. Ms_paws why are you so being so mean? I'm thoroughly shocked and disappointed by your rude comments and I am going to listen to rest of the people who posted on this thread who are presenting their opinions in a nice, non-judgemental way.

Misskiwi, I am also interested in where you got that information about meat meal.

Jennifer

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:28:29 PM

I apologize Lilea. I'm just frusted with some ppl whom don't have open minds & try to understand about pet food. Not everyone gonna change I now realize. I can't sit here & preach to someone who doesn't want to try out or even want to change. My family are the same way, **Name calling** rofl....

papillon806

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:31:08 PM

ORIGINAL: ms_paws

I apologize Lilea. I'm just frusted with some ppl whom don't have open minds & try to understand about pet food. Not everyone gonna change I now realize. I can't sit here & preach to someone who doesn't want to try out or even want to change. My family are the same way, **Name calling** rofl....

I am not trying to be mean by saying this, but I have to say...you keep accusing us of not willing to understand/listen, we are all being **** *****.....what exactly are you doing? You don't seem very flexible on the matter either....

Misskiwi67

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:40:51 PM

I don't remember the original source for the general makeup of the chicken meal. Keep in mind, its just the chicken meal, I don't know anything about meat meals, probably because I haven't had to delve deeply into foods that use them.

Here is a study I found that clearly states (several times) that the calcium and phosphorus in chicken meal is higher than in the other two protein sources, one being meat meal, and the other being corn gluten meal. To me, this means more bone. It becomes a significant difference when they have to re-evaluate all their data based on the excess calcium and phosphorus found in the chicken meal. Interesting reading, for sure...

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1250243

I'll see if I can't dig up that original article. I need to start bookmarking stuff...

papillon806

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:44:20 PM

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

I don't remember the original source for the general makeup of the chicken meal. Keep in mind, its just the chicken meal, I don't know anything about meat meals, probably because I haven't had to delve deeply into foods that use them.

Here is a study I found that clearly states (several times) that the calcium and phosphorus in chicken meal is higher than in the other two protein sources, one being meat meal, and the other being corn gluten meal. To me, this means more bone. It becomes a significant difference when they have to re-evaluate all their data based on the excess calcium and phosphorus found in the chicken meal. Interesting reading, for sure...

[linkhttp://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1250243]http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1250243[/link]

I'll see if I can't dig up that original article. I need to start bookmarking stuff...

Yes, that is true. This is why many cat food brands use corn gluten meal in place of a chicken meal, etc because it raises the calcium so high that crystals and elevated ash contents become a big issue. I think that many people think that chicken meal is mostly muscle meat and a little bit of bone dehydrated, when in fact it is mostly the bones with fragments of muscle meat on them (like you mentioned). Being high in calcium, most foods that use only meals add rice or another grain high in phosphorus to balance it out.

Lilea Storm

Posted : 1/29/2007 9:55:00 PM

ORIGINAL: papillon806

ORIGINAL: ms_paws

I apologize Lilea. I'm just frusted with some ppl whom don't have open minds & try to understand about pet food. Not everyone gonna change I now realize. I can't sit here & preach to someone who doesn't want to try out or even want to change. My family are the same way, **Name calling** rofl....

I am not trying to be mean by saying this, but I have to say...you keep accusing us of not willing to understand/listen, we are all being hard heads.....what exactly are you doing? You don't seem very flexible on the matter either....

I have to agree that communication is a 2 way street, it can't be all one sided. Each of us may think we are right but how do we KNOW we are right? You should always keep your mind open to other points of view no matter how much you think you know.

Misskiwi67

Posted : 1/29/2007 10:04:28 PM

Well here is something else I found... rather interesting and I'm not sure how to explain it...

Here is the nutrient profile for chicken meal made by a company...
http://www.griffinind.com/Griffin%2004%20Site/pages/FPS%20chicken%20meal.html

And here is a nutrient profile for poultry by-product meal made by the same company...
http://www.griffinind.com/Griffin%2004%20Site/pages/FPS%2060%20poultry%20bypro%20meal.html

The Chicken meal is 4% calcium, while the by-product meal is 5% calcium. The amino acid content of the Chicken meal looks a little better, but only because its a little higher. I don't know which amino acids are important and which ones aren't, so I can't really use the profile as a solid source of information. But... I'm guessing in this instance the chicken meal would be better (VERY slightly) than the by-product meal.

Moral of the story... you really have no idea what goes into your pet food unless you get a full analysis of all the ingredients along with the ingredient list, and you should always second-guess your sources.

Misskiwi67

Posted : 1/29/2007 10:07:33 PM

Oh WAIT!!!... hahaha...

I was looking at the 60% poultry by-product meal, FEED GRADE... here is the PET GRADE 65% poultry by-product meal. Its only 3.5% calcium, the amino acid profile is nearly identical to the chicken meal, and the protein is 2% HIGHER than the chicken meal.

http://www.griffinind.com/Griffin%2004%20Site/pages/FPS%2065%20poultry%20bypro%20meal.html

Like I said... you just really never know...

Lilea Storm

Posted : 1/29/2007 10:13:52 PM

I thought calcium is a good thing in pet food?

Misskiwi67

Posted : 1/29/2007 10:16:49 PM

It is a good thing, but you only want so much of it. We're just using the calcium content to help determine the amount of bone (and by process of elimination, meat) that might be found in a meal. Nobody here works in a processing plant to tell us what those ingredients look like before they're ground up... so we have to guess using the facts at hand.

Lilea Storm

Posted : 1/29/2007 10:19:59 PM

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

It is a good thing, but you only want so much of it. We're just using the calcium content to help determine the amount of bone (and by process of elimination, meat) that might be found in a meal. Nobody here works in a processing plant to tell us what those ingredients look like before they're ground up... so we have to guess using the facts at hand.

Oh, I see, I just got off track for a sec )

Small Breed Dog Food??