My vet strongly suggested I take Ella off raw

It's odd when they are quick to dismiss food as a problem when it's a kibble fed dog.

 
My vet suggests a food change at the first sight of problems,,,he even gave a seminar on food change a year ago. Don't know if he is qualified to do that or not, nor did I go to hear what he had to say.
The vet I work for suggests food change also, the first time she sees a problem with skin, etc, that could be caused by food.

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

Ella is flaring up with skin issues again.
The vet thinks it's...gosh I cannot remember what it's called, but dogs can often get it from licking a spot too much it's got "lick" in the name. ?

 
Lick granuloma
 
Do I get a gold star?
 
I can see where diet can play a part, but this is often behavioural.  Boredom/stress contributes.  My brothers dog ALWAYS got one when he went to kennels though his food never changed.  The dog wouldn't be too happy about being in the kennels (bored/stressed) and he'd lick at his front leg and keep doing it and doing it and doing it.  The first time my brother thought he'd actually harmed himself because it looked pink but the vet assured him it was iron in the dogs saliva causing the discolouration, not blood.  So in direct response to the OP, if the dog seems OK otherwise on the food she's on, consider other ways to cure the obsessive licking through training and increased stimulation.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

Is there anything about her diet that has changed over the past 6 weeks or so? A new ingredient, meat source, or seasonal fruit/vegetable? If so, that could be your culprit.

You can do homemade elimination diets. Kibble isn't the only way to go. All you need to do is use a single protein source and a single carbohydrate source that your dog hasn't had before, plus a multivitamin for balance. The variety that most raw-fed dogs get could make this a challenge, but I'm sure you could get it done if you wanted to.

You could also test for environmental allergies. Its not really the right time of year for it though... how old is your dog?

Ella is 3 1/2. And as a matter of fact, yes, I got to thinking after I read this post right before I went to bed that, yes, there HAS been a change in diet for Ella. We started training Ella and we started using treats. The treats we started using were the homemade liver/garlic/wheat flour treats that Glenda gave me the recipe for. Ella LOVES them. But...now that I'm looking back, and when she started breaking out with the bumps on her back and sides was around the same time as the treats. Now...that could have nothing to do with it because around then we started training Ella at the same time, I started school and Ella is crated more during the day 2 days a week, we started NILIF. Ella is a very sensitive dog and it appears to me that everytime she gets stressed or something stressful happens, she breaks out with some skin issue.

So, really, it could be completely unrelated to food and could be just some immune system malfunction or something, but it could totally be food related.
But would she form food allergies after 4 months of being fed the same raw food variety? And if it was the liver treats, it would most likely be the wheat flour, I would assume, right? I say that only because Ella doesn't get grains, and she gets liver ALL THE TIME. I don't know enough about food allergies or allergies period, to figure it out.

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

Ella is flaring up with skin issues again.
The vet thinks it's...gosh I cannot remember what it's called, but dogs can often get it from licking a spot too much it's got "lick" in the name. ?

Lick granuloma

Do I get a gold star?

I can see where diet can play a part, but this is often behavioural. Boredom/stress contributes. My brothers dog ALWAYS got one when he went to kennels though his food never changed. The dog wouldn't be too happy about being in the kennels (bored/stressed) and he'd lick at his front leg and keep doing it and doing it and doing it. The first time my brother thought he'd actually harmed himself because it looked pink but the vet assured him it was iron in the dogs saliva causing the discolouration, not blood. So in direct response to the OP, if the dog seems OK otherwise on the food she's on, consider other ways to cure the obsessive licking through training and increased stimulation.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the sore on her leg. And yes! You can have ALL THE GOLD STARS!!! hahaha. That is what it is called!

The boredom part makes sense since she is crated more during the day on 2 days out of the week. And she hasn't been wanting to take long walks due to the weather. I've been TRYING to work with her on the treadmill, but luring her with a treat in front of the treadmill, is not teaching her how to keep walking on the treadmill once it's on. I work on her training with her and take her to training weekly. She'll get way more stimulation this weekend as the entire family is home all at once and my children and I will play catch inside with her.
Winter time sucks for those of us without fenced in yards and dogs who DISLIKE going outside other than to do their potty stuff.

Clicker training is great for tiring dogs out.  And it might help you teach her to uswe the treadmill too.  Oh and interactive toys would help if you don't use them already.

the only toys Ella will touch are her cuz balls. She will NOT touch anything put into her crate. She won't chew on kongs or even her cuz balls when she's in there.

I would definately drop the treats.  Maybe you can cook up on low temps some of the mixture of raw you have been feeding her and give that as treats..  I would rotate (after she gets over this bout) the foods she gets.  She can become / develop problems if she is fed the same foods over and over.
 
I would also supplement with probiotics (I use Culturelle from Target pharmacy) for now to help with any stomach (food issue)  roblems she might be having.
 
When my food allergy girl started not walking up steps (again), I took her to a specilist vet and discovered it was the treats I was giving her.   What I found out is that even in small amounts (treats), if a food causes severed stomach pains, it can cause the dog not to want to walk or use their back legs.  Well, if the small amount I was giving her affected her that severely, then I suppose the liver treats could cause these skin issues with Ella. So, that is not unreasonable.
 
Just a thought: maybe you could supplement with about 25 mg or more (depending on size) of a multi B vitamin with meals to help with stress for the next few weeks until she gets used to the changes in the schedule.
 
Oh,  you could also try the treats with another source of grain - substitue the wheat for something else (not buckwheat).  But, personally, I wouldn 't give a whole lot of liver treats anyway b/c of the high vit A content - so if I were training and doing a lot of treats, I might want to use another treat and rotate (don't try this until after this current bout).

Chewbecca--
 
I suspect it's most likely the wheat in the treats.  My guy can't tolerate any grains, but wheat is the one grain he will have an immediate reaction to.  Remember, the antiobiotics may cause a yeast issue,and can exacerbate the skin problem--you might have to increase your probiotics, and may need an imune system boost.  I have had good success with Berte's Immune Blend from B-Naturals, when my tzu has any flare-ups. 
 
For what its worth, my experience with Benedryl has not been great--it never really stopped any itch and/or inflammation for my guy.  I have, however, had great luck with Homeopets "Skin and Itch Relief". 
 
 

thanks, guys.
What I think I'm going to have to do is make the liver treats with potato flour. When I give her the treats, they're SO small, like almost crumb size.

I also started her back on plain yogurt and I gave her her first round of antbiotics at night. I am to give it to her once a day and I will do that at night as she handled it well this way last night.

I give her berte's free-b (a yeast free b-complex supplement) once a day. The problem is, it only has the dosage amount for humans which is 3 tablets daily. I've only been giving her one tablet. I've heard for dogs that you cut the human dose in half and that is what you give the dog daily. Should I up it to 1 1/2 tabs daily? She weighs 60 lbs.

The vet wants her on fish oil daily (which I give her salmon oil daily anyway) and due to that I give her vitamin E so that she doesn't get depleted of vitamin E because of the extra fish oil.

The other treats I have been giving her (which are bought and called "lean treats", vets usually sell them in their office) also have wheat flour.

When Ella was at the shelter she was fed Science Diet and CONSTANTLY had skin issues like this. She was ALWAYS being treated for skin infections. When I got her, I fed her Natural Balance for about a week and then I moved her to a grain-free food and the only other non-grain free food she's had since I've had her is Nature's Variety beef meal and barley. Since I've had her, this is the first time her skin has broken out in these bumps (she came to me with this bumpy skin infection from the shelter) and once I got her and changed her to either a grain-free kibble or raw (which obviously contains NO grains, for her raw diet anyway) her coat GLEAMED and the only other skin issue we had was an environmental fungus that attached to her skin. That environmental fungal infection she got (which was only on the tips and edges of her ears) was an unusual fungus and the vet said is not a fungus that normally would attach itself to the skin of a dog. BUT she started developing this fungal infection WHILE she still had the bacterial infection that she came to me with from the shelter. So, I think that perhaps (and my vet thinks this too) that the fungus was able to attach itself to her skin and settle and cause an infection because her immune system was down due to the bacterial infection. But once the fungal infection and bacterial infection were cleared up, her skin was great and her coat GLEAMED. Until now, with the introduction of these liver treats with the wheat in them.
Does that make any sense?

Chuffy gets extra gold stars cuz that is what I was going to say about the lick granulomas.
Stress can also lead to a lowered immune system and hence the appearance of the other bumps - perhaps a staff infection that she might have otherwise kept at bay.
 
Doesn't hurt to try the raw without chicken, though - more and more dogs seem to be showing signs of chicken allergies.

But would she form food allergies after 4 months of being fed the same raw food variety? 

 
   Yes; dogs usually develop allergies to food they've eaten for a while, as in Jessie's case; after a few years of being on dog foods with chicken as the protein source, she developed an allergy to it. It could also be the wheat in the treats or the liver.

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

But would she form food allergies after 4 months of being fed the same raw food variety?

Yes; dogs usually develop allergies to food they've eaten for a while, as in Jessie's case; after a few years of being on dog foods with chicken as the protein source, she developed an allergy to it. It could also be the wheat in the treats or the liver.

Well, if this is the case then crap. It could be ANYTHING I'm feeding her. It could be chicken, beef, lamb, tripe, sardines, pork, sea kelp, liver, yogurt, olive oil, salmon oil...anything.

Did jessie break out with pimple type bumps all over her back and sides from the chicken?

Well, if this is the case then crap. It could be ANYTHING I'm feeding her. It could be chicken, beef, lamb, tripe, sardines, pork, sea kelp, liver, yogurt, olive oil, salmon oil...anything.

Did jessie break out with pimple type bumps all over her back and sides from the chicken?

 
  Yep; you've got your work cut out for you; has she had rabbit or duck much; IVD makes 4 allergy diets but one has fish; the other 3 are otato and Rabbit, Potato and Duck, and Potato and Venison;   [linkhttp://www.royalcanin.us/vetdiet/vetdietcanineind.html]http://www.royalcanin.us/vetdiet/vetdietcanineind.html[/link].  If you can find an affordable source for any of these in raw form I know that's what you would prefer but I mentioned these diets as a possibility. They are naturally preserved and I fed EVO rabbit with the Potato and Rabbit diet, with the vet's approval, to increase the amount of protein.
 
   Every dog has unique ways of showing they're allergic to something; Jessie chewed all four of her paws and made them bloody; her ears also were itchy and she would scratch her face a lot as well as chew the area under her tail.  Environmental allergies caused her to have skin infections on her stomach, which are small red pustules; her eyes also watered a lot. She will also break out on her stomach if she comes into direct contact with a weed she's allergic to, but that's rare. Kpwlee's dog Bugsy breaks out in hives on his back when he eats something he's allergic to.
 
   I agree with Becca about raw; it's not a brand of food and Ella's problems may not be related to any nutritional deficiencies but to an allergic reaction to one of the ingredients, if she has a food allergy (Jessie has food and environmental allergies). Becca's dogs do excellent on raw and so do Laura's and some others. This is OT, but I wonder if the reason many dogs seem to do well on raw may not be because the food is raw, but because they're getting more protein from meat than if they were eating kibble; a lot of dogs do great on homecooked too, and they're usually getting more meat protein than they would from kibble.

Yes, dogs can develop allergies to new foods at any time, BUT... due to the timing (both the training and the season), I would start with the treats first. Find some treats that don't have liver or wheat flour in them, and see what happens. If its the treats, you should see results in 3-6 weeks IF you have controlled her secondary skin infections.

I'd like to add to everyones comments on Lick granulomas. Boredom plays a big role in making lick granulomas worse, but 90% of lick granulomas can be controlled by finding and controlling an underlying allergy problem. So if your dog has this problem, think allergies first, and control the boredom in the meantime to keep it from getting worse.

Be prepared to continue to struggle with allergies as Ella grows. She will probably continue to become allergic to more foods as she ages. Try not to give her anything she hasn't had before so you can save those proteins/carbohydrates for elimination trials later.

Be prepared to continue to struggle with allergies as Ella grows. She will probably continue to become allergic to more foods as she ages. Try not to give her anything she hasn't had before so you can save those proteins/carbohydrates for elimination trials later.

 
  My vet said dogs develop new food allergies as time goes by, which is why Jessie's on the potato and rabbit diet right now; to see if her flare ups this summer and fall could be caused by a new food allergy. I'm going through the challenging phase now; so far she's been doing pretty good.