Why can't my dogs eat higher protein amounts??

Is there another answer other than "some dogs just don't".???

ORIGINAL: chasza

I think there are two seperate issues here.  Stool formation has more to do with overall composition than just protein level.  Different stool forming agents are more effective with some dogs than others.  In addition some protein sources are handled better than others by individual dogs. 
 
You only mentioned Nature's Variety Venison for your higher protein level trial.  It could be that the same formulation with a different meat would work better with your dog or that a formulation with the same level of venison but with different ingredients would work better.
 
You made the protein level comparisons by saying 26% is 5% higher than 21% but another way to look at it is that it is 23.8% more.  I do not think the level of protein is the cause of the soft stools.

Maybe it's the brands you've tried.  Maybe a food like Innova, Chicken Soup, Canidae, or something with 24% protein would be more acceptable?  You could also try adding extra protein through more water-diluted sources like canned foods.

I read the same article in WDJ and found it interesting too.  I'm not sure it'll do much in regards to the protein issue, but started giving my 11 y.o. Missing Link everyday.  I worry about her getting all the nutrients she needs, although she is, and always has been, the healthiest dog you could ask for. 

In the article it does mention trying 2 or 3 different foods, if I remember right.  Could it be that the added protein would be fine but you just need to find the right protein source and/or extras?   Or, could you just trying adding more protein in the way of raw or homecooked meats to the kibble?

Some dogs just don't. [sm=rotfl.gif]

Seriously, there are differences in what different dogs have adapted to, genetically. this was a huge problem with Border Collies I placed as pets. People thought, wow, this is an active dog, I need to feed this high-octane food. Nope, BCs have been dogs that traditionally were fed a very low quality diet and not only survived, but maintained a high level of performance. Dogs that go back to that heritage (older working lines), tend to retain this ability. But it comes back to bite them as very energy dense feeds seem to be hard for them to tolerate. I used to recommend Cal Natural Reduced Calorie to a lot of adoptive families, believe it or not. Either that or feed green beans with every meal. I don't know, I guess it boils down to a need for fiber, but I'm not 100% sure that is it.

Then there's Border Collies that are the exact opposite, so it's really an individual thing. That's why I'm so nonchalant about "whatever works". To me, it's most important that health be maintained and the dog get energy first, then the building blocks for cellular repair and growth, immune system function, and then after that long term health considerations. If you are not meeting the first needs then you'll never make it to that last one.

Here's my contribution: I have a cat with IBS or something like that. Super premium foods are too low in crap (filler) for him and he makes pure pudding on them. I had to downgrade his formula. Fortunately Innova recently came out with a low-fat cat food and he does well on that.

Paula

Thanks, guys.  I did try TWO as well, with a different meat source (one fish, and one bison), as well as NV Venison.  So, gee, I don't know. 
 
I am wanting to try it not just b/c I read it was good, but b/c I think both my dogs need help with some immune boosting.  I have been adding some canned meat, but also some veggies as well, so I suppose the veggies brings the increase of protein percentage back down some.
 
The only food he is consistently good on --poop wise -- is Cal Nat. Lamb.  BUT, I want to switch it around and give him different brands / meat sources.  It would also be nice to feed a food that in the future I could give to both dogs (she can't have rice that's in the Cal. Nat). 
 
But, mostly, I want to be able to switch meat sources around  and improve his health at the same time.  (Of course, he may have food issues like his sister, and just shows it differently - I really am not wanting to go there).
 
Well, right now I have a big bag of Natural Balance that's at 21% and the poop's are not that firm, either, but I'm going to see if that's just a transitional thing. 
 
If that doesn't take, then I will do as suggested and add meat into the Cal. Natural.  IF that works, then I will assume that he, too, has food sensitivites (please say no - we are already on an elimination diet for his sister...)
 
OK, odd thought that popped into my mind b/c I was "talking" it out with you guys.  He stood in here today, looked at me, and started peeing.  Took him outside, pee'd more. It had only been 3 hours since we were out.    Now, his sister, who is actually allergic to brown rice, pee'd twice in the house after I challanged her for it.  So, maybe the poops on the NB - 21% are softer b/c there is a food in there that is irritating his system, including the bladder.
 
Well, I will just watch and see for the next week.  But, that might be a clue.
 
Guys, it is so good to talk to you, I just thought of something else!  Neither dog did well on Cal. Nat. Sweet potato.  It has virtually the same amounts of protein,fat, moisture, and only one-half % difference in fiber than the CAL Nat. lamb.  I know he can eat sweet pot. and fish w/o any problems.  Their's has herring or menhaden--- he does great at home with mackeral.
 
 
SO:  1) problems with Cal Nat potato and fish ,  2) problems with Natural Balance potato and fish,   3) BUT, does just fine when fed potatoes or fish at home.
 
So, the only common ingredent betweein Cal Nat and NB was Rosemary and Natural Flavoring.
 
His sister got to where her stomach hurt so bad that she wouldn't walk up steps when I was feeding her Solid Gold lamb jerky as treats.  It includes mesquite flavoring and Rosemary.
 
If you are still reading this very rambling thread:
 
Do you think the amount of natural flavoring or Rosemary could produce such results as her severe stomach pains (manifested by issues with the back legs), or  soft stools for her brother.     Rosemary?  I would say "no way",  except Callie wrote recently that she couldn't even take a single bite of basil w/o breaking out in hives.
 
Could my guys be fine on mackeral that I give them, but not fine on the types of fish in the kibbles?
 
Arrrrggggggg.  So frustrating.  Thanks for giving me advice, helping me, and listening to me.  
 
I appreciate it.
 
Lynn 

Why don't you just try the Cal. Natural Lamb puppy? It has 26% protein and it is pretty much the same as the adult....it may be worth it since it wouldn't be a huge change.

  I agree with Dakota; It's probably the fiber source and the carb used in the formulas you tried; foods that have both white and brown rice are supposed to be good for producing firm stool. There's a simple way to add protein to whatever food your dog does well on ; add your own raw or cooked meat; that's what I do for Jessie. I have a scale that only cost $6.00 and it measures ounces up to a pound;  for every 3 and a half ounces of meat I add 250mg of calcium, which is one fourth teaspoon of the calcium carbonate powder I use.

 
Well,  it never occured to me to try the puppy formula. And, truthfully, I didn't have that knowledge stuck in my head that puppy food was higher protein.   That would be a good test to help me determine what's really going on.
 
And, I did notice that the Cal.Nat had both brown and white rice, which I had wondered why it had both.  I didn't know that both types helped with the firming up. 
 
I have a scale already.  I'm homecooking for my girl for her allergy diet, and I had to have one for that.  I'm going to test your suggestion as well to add meat to the lower protein kibble.
 
Well, I think I have a game plan now.  I was just so frustrated before that I was in "stuck" mode. 
 
Guys, I really do appreciate helping me figure out what to try next.  I will be doing several different things and keeping notes on what works and what doesn't.
 
UMMM,  does anyone know how to fugure in how much meat would increase the protein levels to what percentage?  I know to just start with a little bit, and see what works for him.  But, once I found out how much that was, it would be interesting to know how much protein percentage that ended up making?  Or, I could just start a new thread for all the math whizes to work on. []
 
Thanks for the much needed game plan!!!!!
 
Lynn
 

UMMM, does anyone know how to fugure in how much meat would increase the protein levels to what percentage? I know to just start with a little bit, and see what works for him. But, once I found out how much that was, it would be interesting to know how much protein percentage that ended up making? 

 
  I hope someone comes along who knows the answer; I've been wondering the same thing. I only have one caution; if you replace more than a third of the kibble you're feeding with meat or a combo of meat and veggies, you'll need to add a multi vitamin. This link will give you the amount of protein for different meats;  [linkhttp://www.nutritiondata.com/]http://www.nutritiondata.com/[/link].  For example; I've been adding bison to Jessie's food lately and one ounce of cooked bison has 8 grams of protein, so that will give you some idea of how much extra protein you're adding.

I love that site.  Someome here posted about it a few months ago and I went on there to see how much phosphorus was in rabbit so I would know how much calcium to add to my girls diet.
 
But, again, duh.... I didn't think about looking at the protein amounts.  Gee, there is so much to keep straight.
 
I do already have a muti that I have for my girl, so I know it would be 2 caps a day for his weight if he was all homecooked, so I'll just guess at how much to give him from that.
 
I'll just have to look at the percentage of food that it takes up from a whole meal and give part of one capsule from that.  But, it's still a bit of a guessing game as to how much wet food takes up when replacing kibble.  That's just a total guess, there.  You know, lok at the wet food, then go "gee, that looks like it would be equal to 1/4 cup kibble".  That's hard.   If you know any secrets there, pass it on.  I'm just guesstamating.
 
You know, I've been doing about 1/4 replacement of kibble w/o adding in a supplement.  But, I wonder if that amount, on a regular basis would still need a small portion of a multi.  Are you sure the standard is 1/3?
 
I know I've read of some kibbles (TWO, I think) that account for you adding in a certain amount of raw or homecooked.  I suppose that they add in a little extra nutrients to account for this?  Or do all the good companies do that.   Maybe I should e-mail Cal. Natural and see what they say.   That would be interesting to find out what a good kibble manufacturer says who doesn't come out and say "you can add up to 1/3 of other stuff".   It's late, and I'm not sure if I'm making sense.   I'm trying to say I wonder if some manufactures add in more vit/minerals for this express purpose.
 
Well, I must force my tired self outside with the dogs.  Then, I'm asleep!!
 
Have a good first night of the new year!!

You know, I've been doing about 1/4 replacement of kibble w/o adding in a supplement. But, I wonder if that amount, on a regular basis would still need a small portion of a multi. Are you sure the standard is 1/3?

 
  That's what the booklet I have called " Enhancing Commercial Diets" by Monica Segal says. It's also where the info came from about supplementing 3 and a half ounces of meat with 250mg of calcium. For judging how much canned or kibble I'm replacing with cooked food, I go by calories instead of trying to guess. I hope you have a good first night of the new year too. []

I have a dog who, despite beautiful bloodwork, cannot process over about 10% protein, wet. Now, she has underlying health problems, but they're not apparent. Any vet who is not given a history and does a thorough exam is likely to find nothing wrong with Emma. Dry, she can handle even less protein (Natural Balance and the like are about it, for her, and I was adding carby treats). I suppose that's because it's harder to break down. It's an interesting subject, for me, because I've had quite a few people tell me that I need to up her protein, to help her weight and immune system, and keep her in optimal condition, but she just can't deal with it.

Whatever works. She looks fantastic. I'm perfectly happy with her weight, and her muscle mass (she is BUFF!). Her coat looks good. Her teeth are ok. I can't name anything I'd like to see much different, so I'm sticking to "low" protein, for her[]

10% protein in wet form isn't low, though, is it? if it's 80% water, that means it would be 50% protein if dry.
 
Keep in mind that if you feed your dog too much bone-free meat he will likely have soft stools. Adding raw meaty bones to the dog's diet may be a better way to increase the protein without soft stools. Plus does wonders for the teeth.