Eddie - Transition to the Irena Diet

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    Eddie - Transition to the Irena Diet

    "Eddie" arrived tonight and I thought it might be helpful to see what a new dog goes through here. I'm putting this in the nutrition section since a big part of working with a new dog in our program is transitioning him over to the kibble/raw combination he will eat both here and at my partner's. I'll include brief notes about his training to demonstrate what stressors he's facing.

    Baseline: Eddie stinks! The kids like his name so I'll keep it though I was planning to change it since I have a "Ted" here already. He's got doggy odor really bad, yuck. He was on a grocery store food. His coat looks good though a bit dry, skin looks good though stinky as I said. His breath is doggy flavored. His teeth have a light tartar buildup.

    He is slightly overweight, while his muscle tone doesn't look good. I see lots of walks in his future, before he will have the stamina to train for work. I've only got two weeks to get him ready before our big Jack Knox clinic, when I hope to have Jack introduce him to the sheep. It's an opportunity that is a little like getting your first golf lesson from Tiger Woods!

    Gameplan. I believe I'll start him on Canidae Platinum since I've got it here and the carb profile will be similiar to a grain-based food, but a "step up" in that it uses whole grains and more natural meats. He'll also start the OFA/Vitamin E supplement and glucosamine/chondroitin to prepare his body for the stresses of working. I'll see what happens with that, and then I'll start adding in a tiny raw bone and a scrambled egg with shell in a few days.

    My goal will be to switch him over to a raw meal and half his kibble ration over the course of the next week to two weeks, then switch his kibble over to a higher-protein diet. I'm going unusually fast because I have reports that he switched easily from one food to the other in the shelter so I'm hoping that means he's got a strong stomach.

    I am expecting that I'll be keeping him on something like Bil-Jac.. If I'm right about his breeding (I can tell where he came from by his looks), he's from old, old working lines and he'll have "garbage gut" which means a high tolerance for trash but will not be able to tolerate concentrated or energy dense feeds. Thankfully, it also means he'll be an easy keeper! Garbage gut dogs tend not to have huge "detox" episodes unless very old, so he might not be a good "detox" example. He would be a great example of what is NOT detox if I tried something like EVO on him, however! but I won't inflict that on him unless I have a reason to try it.

    He will be in my "Peace and Quiet" program the next few days, so his days will consist of leash walks, crate time, very gentle and minimal interaction, all on a very strict schedule. Mentally, this dog is shut down and has basically given up on people. He was shut down in the shelter after being dumped or lost, then adopted and offered little structure or training. He rebounded with severe avoidance behavior, escaping, showing signs of seperation anxiety, running off. His new owners were frustrated and decided it was best to find him a working home. Fortunately for Eddie, we were here and had a space. When he arrived here this evening, Eddie was shut down again. He's in there, however, I can see it - he'll just need some time to regroup and get his bearings before we start asking him to give people another chance. [;)]

    I'll get pics tomorrow - Laura is supposed to be coming up to help with some sheep chores so she can help me get good pics of Chubby aka Eddie. [:D]
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    Becca, could you explain the make up of your farm?  How many sheep do you have?  How many dogs?  Working dogs?  House dogs?  Or are they both?  You mention a partner; is that a personal relationship or do you have a partner that helps run the farm.  (I don't mean to get personal or anything here, but in this day and age "partner" can mean many things and I don't want to assume)
     
    Just curious.  I am reading Patricia McConnell's "The Other End of the Leash" and she talks about her sheep farm a little.  Also, where in NC are you?  I have family in Cary and Raleigh.
     
    Sue
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    Right now I have thirty breeding ewes (this is down dramatically from the past, but we moved this year). We raise them for meat - I supply someone who buys them as "feeders" meaning they buy lambs freshly weaned and feed them up. In the past I've also supplied lamb to people who just want one to put in their freezer, or even cull sheep to feed their dogs. I sell these "live", deliver these sheep to processors, and their buyers either pick them up or pay me to deliver them.

    The sheep are grazed primarily in three fields which are not fenced. I place the sheep in one area and then use the dogs to "bump" them through the day. I follow the sheep's instincts to start grazing high in the morning and graze the lowest part of the pasture by evening. The sheep must be penned every time I cannot watch them, such as during my sons' home school lessons, when I take a shower, or when I run errands. There are also regular chores that need to be done such as setting out feed, which requires the dog to drive them far enough away to give me a fair chance to dump the feed without getting trampled.

    Shearing, vaccination, worming, trimming hooves, driving new mothers to the lambing pens, dividing sheep for sale or breeding, catching lambs for shots, ear tagging, tatooing, or treatment of sick animals: all require the dog as the sheep cannot be caught without a great deal of trouble, without the dogs. I can't even imagine trying to get sheep off thirty acres of green pasture, into a pen with no grass, without a dog. The dog takes less than a minute to gather sheep scattered all over that big field, and put them in the pen, without my having to move at all other than open the gate and close it.

    I also use the sheep to train dogs to chase migratory birds off water features in various commercial and residential settings. I also lay the groundwork for dogs that are sold to a trainer who offers a wildlife removal service to airports and the military. They keep the runways clear of fowl, deer, canines other than the working dogs, wild pigs, and alligators. The dogs do not help with the alligators or pigs! Very, very strict obedience is required in these situations, BUT the dogs must be driven enough to work up to two miles away from their handler, so they need a special kind of dog.

    My partner also trains these dogs. She is literally my business partner. She has her own cattle farm, a much more serious operation than my little farm here. She does the majority of the training on stock, while I take largely care of the groundwork and socialization, plus bird work and swimming training.

    Let's see, what else? I'm about 40 minutes north of north Durham, or 20 minutes south of Danville, VA.

    We have six dogs of our own in the house currently - BCs: Ben, Cord, Rocky, Ted. Rocky and Ted are puppies so only Ben and Cord are working right now. Ultimately, with Ben turning eleven this year, Ted will take his place in another year or so as a full time working dog. Rocky is being trained by my husband. Zhi the Chinese creested and Maggie are pretty much housedogs, though they are far from couch potatoes. I also have a rescue right now, Eddie. We have two dogs that stay with the sheep to guard them, Lu and Tully the Maremma sheepdogs.

    Patricia McConnell and I have some mutual friends in the sheepdog world, though we've never personally met.
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    brookcove - I'm fascinated.  How will you go about introducing Eddie to sheep? 
     
    I know this wasn't the main thrust of your post, but I just googled Maremma sheepdogs, since I had never heard of them.  I am in LOVE!  What gorgeous dogs!  I'm not sure I'd ever be in a situation to give one the life it deserved, but if I were I think I would have one of them in a heartbeat!
     
    Kate
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    This should be interesting[;)] It was fun to watch Teenie change, as she switched from whatever she was eating, to good kibble, to mostly raw. Next time I get a dog, I'll have to document it more, with good photos, dates, and what the dog is currently eating and doing. Good idea! 
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    Wow!  I find it all so fascinating.  I am truly a city girl at heart, but I love to hear about farm life.  My friend's husband works on a dairy and pig farm in PA with his father and brother.  I visited their farm one summer with the goal of milking a cow.  Her FIL thought I was crazy.  He just laughed at me, silly city girl who is getting so exicted about milking a cow.  But, I did and I have the pictures to prove it!  lol 
     
    Thanks for sharing the info about your very interesting life.  So, it sounds like besides the business side of the sheep you also train dogs.  I have seen stories on K9-5 on Animal Planet about border collies that chase off birds from airstrips. 
     
    Sue
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    I have seen a couple of Australian movies about sheep "stations" as they are called, and it amazed me to watch dogs actually run right across a herd of sheep ON THE SHEEPS" BACKs to get to the other side.  One of my favorite movies is THE SUNDOWNERS with Robert Mitchum and Deborah Kerr.  They were migrant shearers in it, but it was a really good movie with lots of sheep!
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    Day One:

    Fast day. I do this because in probably 80% of dogs that come into rescue, they will refuse to eat the first day anyway. It's a survival instinct. It also makes them more comfortable because about half of them will also refuse to eliminate. I do not withold water.

    Eddie is still in super-appeasement mode. He did, however, make eye contact for the first time late this afternoon, in an interesting way. He spotted the neighbor's calves coming to the feeder and started barking. I didn't say anything to him, but he turned right around and gave me the Border Collie "Well? Aren't you going to do something about that?" stare. Yay! That means a lot. After that he was more responsive to where I was, versus just being the dog on the end of the leash, keeping the leash loose, stopping when I did, etc, even though I wasn't asking anything of him. He's still got a ways to go, though.

    I'm very pleased and look forward to seeing how he progresses.

    He refused to look at the camera - my best shot of his face and my flash misfired, darn.



    Side view of a headless dog. [8|] The curl in his coat is not abnormal, but the frizzy dry look is.



    Dry, crunchy coat, patchy thinness. I wish this were smell-o-vision - or rather, you should be glad it isn't!

    • Bronze
    I LOVE this diary!!
    Facinating.
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    I too am fascinated!

    But I can actually appreciate the use of dogs when it comes to gathering sheep for vaccinations, supplementation, trimming hooves, etc....it would have been VERY nice to have a herding dog while I was doing research at the metabolism unit!! Me and my collegues had to devise plans on how we were going to get those darned sheep from that paddock 2933497 miles away (lol) back to the unit.  It took us 3 hours (not kidding) just to get them all down there, not to mention the time it took to seperate and get the ones we needed!  On a different occasion, Dr. Faris brought his old-timer, herding BC out to the unit and he got the same herd down (from the same pasture) in a little less than 5 minutes...WOW.  [:D]

    This is a little off-topic, but this is getting me excited for my new years meal I'm making!! Grilled leg of lamb (marinated in salt, pepper, garlic, mint leaves and olive oil) with butternut squash and peas on the side *drools*
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    Just curious, do you bathe the dogs before starting the new diet too?
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    Oh, yum. All my lambs are gone but I've got some more coming back for the clinic and I'll be selling those afterwards. I'll probably put one in the freezer for us, super yum!

    I forgot to answer how we'll put Eddie on sheep for the first time. My partner has a very small paddock (about 100 feet by 75 feet) and sheep that are very quiet and have learned to come to the person no matter what the dog does, if it's at all possible.

    She likes to use a long line to begin with. Jack doesn't bother with a long line - he works instead in a very small pen - 50 feet across. Either way, you let the dog go to the sheep and then you basically shape what you want by correcting what isn't appropriate.

    First, it's OK to chase the sheep as long as the dog sort of kind of keeps them together - we only correct chasing down singles. Then we keep the dog from going up the middle, or flipping around in huge circles (usually the next thing they try).

    Then the dog realizes that everything sort of feels right when they are on the opposite side of the sheep from US, and they start seeking that place - even if we move around the sheep, the dog will move with us. Now we'll start walking in little figure eights so the dog pushes the sheep two steps towards us, then has to "cover" them with a little sideways movement, settle down and take another couple steps, then "cover" them again in the opposite direction.

    When the dog is doing this reliably and calmly, we can move out into a bigger area. The figure eights get bigger, and the dog is also called off and sent around the sheep to gather them and brng them back, farther than they could do in the small area.

    All we are doing at this point is correcting what is wrong, setting the dog up so that what is right is also the EASIEST thing to do, and shutting up and letting the dog work when he's right. Commands, other than the recall and maybe the stop, will come much later when the dog is comfortable controlling the sheep calmly. Trust comes when the dog realizes that if he "gives" to you, the answers come quicker and things are much calmer, and you'll let them take control. Border Collies are control freaks and getting to fulfill that is the ultimate reinforcer for them. [:D]

    If we can get Eddie to that point, he'll forget everything that's ever happened to him and he'll be butter in the hands of whoever can give him a job to do. I'm crossing my fingers on that!

    Update: He pooped, just a tiny (but hugely stinky) bit. Yay! I gave him a little snack of cottage cheese and Green Cow (just a few tablespoons) and started him on the supplements.
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    Eddie appears to have gotten a bath or grooming right before he came - he was slightly damp. I will only bathe a dog if they've got a lot of kennel filth on them, and I have no outside place for the dog. Border Collies kept indoors that have correct, healthy coats, shed dirt and do not smell - neither like dirt, nor like "dog". Dogs fed a corn based product do have a faint popcorn or frito smell - some have this no matter what they eat, though. It's not unpleasant to snuggle up against a warm fuzzy popcorn smelling thing on a rainy night. [;)]

    I'm mulling over his age. He strikes me as being much younger than what they said, three years old. They based it in tartar buildup. It's true that the tartar is there but his gums aren't inflamed like you would expect if he had that much tartar. Sometimes if they eat really awful food the tartar can build up much faster - and his coat makes me think this might be true. My vet is a wonderfull person and I love her to death, but pegging ages on rescues is not one of her fortes. [;)] We'll see what happens when he starts eating bones.
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    This is very interesting! Thank you for sharing all of this with us Brookcove! I've been fascinated just reading how all the sheep/farm stuff works.

    It'll be really interesting also to watch the progress that Eddie makes, with both health and personality. Right now in the pics it's so obvious how shy and scared he is. [:(] Can't wait to see him blossom, although I would imagine it's going to take awhile. It'll be an interesting journey! [:)]
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    A quick update as I'll be very busy today.

    Eddie got his first full meal yesterday. Two cups of Canidae Platinum and 4 oz (about a quarter can) of green tripe. I'm dividing this into two portions.

    Schedule:
    0700: Quick potty walk down to the road (I'll also drop off mail). Out and straight back to crate.
    0900: Longer exercise walk but still rather brief - out to old barn and back to check sheep. I tell him how much fun he's going to have in a couple weeks here. [;)] Back to crate, breakfast for all dogs.
    1100: Quick potty break.
    1230: Walk to upper pasture. We talk about the cows that are there. If he's a good boy he'll find a home with a very nice lady and get lots of cows and work to exhaustion every day. He loves the cows, and says he can't wait. This is the only time he acts like he's more than a mobile hairball on the other end of the leash. [sm=wink2.gif] Back to crate.
    1430: Quick potty break
    1630: Walk to small pond. We talk about the ducks. He's not all that interested. He wants to know where the cows are. Back to crate for dinner.
    2030: Quick potty break.
    Midnight: Last potty break - walk up the orchard pasture.

    I haven't had one like him in a while and my weight shows it! I forsee my New Year's resolution of losing five pounds by the end of the month should be taken care of with no problem. [:D]

    He's on a puppy potty schedule. Why? I discovered he has an interesting problem. Supposedly he is three years old and will not keep a crate clean! Can you say puppymill/petstore puppy? There are no problems, however, in the world of dog training, just opportunities. [;)] I remember now the guy I got him from said he wouldn't stop pooping/peeing in the house, either.

    I set him up in a much smaller crate and he's on a more rapid walk schedule. Most dogs like this actually reverse themselves and become very fond of "going" outside. I have more tricks up my sleeve if he doesn't respond to simple puppy scheduling, but he seems fine now. No accidents since his first day here. I will have to be very careful changing his food however as I don't want to set back his crate/house training with a bout of upset tummy.

    Time to go cook the family our traditional New Year's breakfast of huevos rancheros, take down Christmas, and help Patrick put fence up!