Raw feeders; ground beef recall

Good reason not to feed raw in my opinion. 

The word "organic" in the meat world gives false hope. Unless the animals are killed in a slaughterhouse that slaughters those type of animals only, organic doesn't mean anything.
 
There is no time to clean the facility let alone the equipment.
 
Large slaughterhouses have a slaughter ratio of 400 head per hour.

Good reason not to feed raw in my opinion.

I don't feed raw but many members do and thier dogs are very healthy; you need to follow strict sanitation procedures, as Rebecca described. I thought because of the risk that ground beef may be contaminated with E.coli that some raw feeding sites advise raw feeders not to give thier dogs ground beef or to grind it themselves.

I've fed raw for years and don't really pay much attention to hygiene or cleanup. Been known to forget to wash the hands and everything. My feeling is the more germs your body gets exposed to on a regular basis, the tougher your immune system gets. Kids raised in very clean environments are more likely to suffer from immune malfunctions-- allergies, asthma, etc.-- than kids raised in filth.
 
The ONLY time I've gotten food poisoning was from some deli-prepared pizza they fed us at work, at a lunch meeting. People are way too paranoid. Most people who get exposed to E. coli and salmonella don't actually get sick, or at worst have a spot of diarrhea-- it's only those who are already ill in some way who need to worry. The young, the old, and the frail. And apparently veggies are much more dangerous than raw meat these days.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I've fed raw for years and don't really pay much attention to hygiene or cleanup. Been known to forget to wash the hands and everything. My feeling is the more germs your body gets exposed to on a regular basis, the tougher your immune system gets. Kids raised in very clean environments are more likely to suffer from immune malfunctions-- allergies, asthma, etc.-- than kids raised in filth.

The ONLY time I've gotten food poisoning was from some deli-prepared pizza they fed us at work, at a lunch meeting. People are way too paranoid. Most people who get exposed to E. coli and salmonella don't actually get sick, or at worst have a spot of diarrhea-- it's only those who are already ill in some way who need to worry. The young, the old, and the frail. And apparently veggies are much more dangerous than raw meat these days.

I guess your knowledge of hygiene and medicine are on a par with each other.  []

I'd agree with mudpuppy actually except we aren't dealing with natural bugs here.  I don't make the kids wash their hands every time they touch the dogs or cats, and I don't follow them around with sanitizing gel.  Factory farm bugs are creepy, though, as are hospital bugs.  Besides, I'm immune compromised and so is one of my kids, so not paying attention to this would be foolhardy for us.

I just had a thought.  If organic cattle farms are using organic hay, then the hay is usually grow using organic fertilizers.  That's usually slurry.  Slurry is liquid manure, usually from factory farms (see where I'm going here?).  I wonder whether that's where the veggies are getting contaminated, somehow.  Idon't think you can use slurry on veggie fields but those fields are often interspersed on a farm with other row crops - hay, legumes, small grains, and orchards, for instance.

My feeling is the more germs your body gets exposed to on a regular basis, the tougher your immune system gets.

 
Agreed, and maybe that's why I hardly ever get sick, while people around me get sick a lot. I've unfortunately become a somewhat compulsive hand washer recently, but I don't use anti-bacterial soap, just good ol' castile soap (super diluted, so it comes out of one of those foamy soap dispensers). I use vinegar, baking soda, and occasionally tea tree oil for cleaning.
 
Cherokee eats raw ground beef a lot. I keep an eye out for recalls, but I'm not that worried about it. I mostly buy her the stuff that's ground at my grocery store anyway, though I did buy tubes recently. She also eats raw veggies ground up in the food processor and often refrigerated for a few days. That could be overrun with E. Coli too. She's a pretty healthy dog, I figure she can handle it.

That's pretty interesting; is there a link that lists which strains of E.coli cause illness in dogs and which ones don't?

E Coli is an EXTREMELY common bacteria that is present in almost all animals & humans. The problem is, it comes in many, many different strains, like the the influenza virus.

The vast majority of E coli bacteria cause no illness whatsoever. Certain strains actually help prevent overgrowth of harmful bactieria in the gut. There are a few strains that usually only cause illness in people with weaker immune systems, like children, elderly and people who are immunosuppressed due to chemo or immune diseases. The E Coli 157:H7 that has turned up in beef, lettuce and other items in the food supply is not lethal in the vast majority of cases. Most people who actually do become ill from it will only develop diarrhea. Of the people who develop serious enough symptoms to seek medical attention, about 8% will develop complications that could possibly lead to kidney failure.

From Iowa State University:

Infections in Animals
E. coli 0157:H7 has been found in cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, deer, dogs and poultry. The major reservoir of this organism is cattle; young animals are most likely to shed bacteria in the feces. Fecal shedding may last only weeks to months and can be intermittent.

Currently, there is no published evidence that E coli 0157:H7 causes disease in animals; however, B. Fenwick and colleagues have suggested that this organism may be linked to Idiopathic Cutaneous and Renal Glomerular Vasculopathy of Greyhounds (CRGV). Experimental infection of calves results in no clinical signs. Sheep also appear to carry the organism asymptomatically.

[linkhttp://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:LJFhZjEnWLoJ:www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/e_coli.pdf+e+coli+in+dogs&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8]Iowa State University Info Sheet[/link]

Sorry to get all technical. My sister was an animal science major and her pet peeve is the way people all panic over the mere mention of E Coli. E Coli itself is not harmful, just a select few strains. Those sensationalized TV shows where they say they've found E Coli on keyboards and phones and doorknobs always get her going on a rant!

Thanks for the explanation and the quote from Iowa State. I don't mind the "technical" explanation at all. [] OT but if you don't mind my asking; the dog in your avatar is beautiful; is he/she a Great Dane or a Dane mix?

Thank you Jessies_mom - we think she's beautiful too!

We got her at a shelter so we're not sure what she is. They called her a "Silver German Shorthair" but there is no such thing [] ! Catahoula or Catahoula mix is our best guess. She's a beautiful blue merle and Catahoula Leaopard Dogs are about the only dog that has thee same type body, face and ears that carries a merle gene.