Vegeterian/vegan dogs

I don't live the vegan lifestyle; neither do my pets. 

I agree with a few others.  Unless Roxie requires a non-meat diet (which, in my opinion, is silly), she'll be getting her meat.  And Trixie will never be fed a vegan diet, because that goes against what she is. 

ORIGINAL: snownose

It grosses me out when I have to deal with meat, but I have an extra large box of surgical gloves in my possession....[]

Hey this is a great idea! How come I never thought to just wear GLOVES when I'm handling their meat! LMFAO...

ORIGINAL: snownose   I know I can NOT hurt my dogs by trying to impose a veggie diet.

 
Imposing a strict vegetarian diet on a dog can hurt a dog.  It is called slow starvation.  The logic that because a dog will eat something must mean the dog is different from it classification is absurd.  I like oregano, I will always ask for a sprinkle on a sub sandwich.  This does not mean I must be an herbivore.  Now apply the same logic to a dog if you will and understand extruding upper and lower canine teeth come for the sole purpose of ripping and tearing meat off of bone.  Despite the fact your dog will eat sliced bread all day long means absolutely nothing concerning a dogs biology.  Dogs are carnivores and require meat based proteins for survival, otherwise they will slowly starve to death.  You obviously know this because you will get out the rubber gloves and also feed Harvest Baked canned chicken.
 

ORIGINAL: snownose I know I can NOT hurt my dogs by trying to impose a veggie diet.



Imposing a strict vegetarian diet on a dog can hurt a dog. It is called slow starvation.

I agree.

I didnt quite understand that statement anyway.What do you mean, you can NOT hurt your dog by feeding him a vego diet.I'm just not sure what the point of that sentence is......

ORIGINAL: cc431

The logic that because a dog will eat something must mean the dog is different from it classification is absurd.  I like oregano, I will always ask for a sprinkle on a sub sandwich.  This does not mean I must be an herbivore. 

no it means you are an omnivore. dogs can and do get some sustanance from veggies. this also makes them an omnivore. cats on the other require meat in their diet, making them an obligate carnivore. []

from wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog):

"The classification in the Order [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivora]Carnivora[/link] does not necessarily mean that a dog's diet must be restricted to [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat]meat[/link]; unlike an obligate carnivore, such as the [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat]cat[/link] family with its shorter [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_intestine]small intestine[/link], a dog is dependent on neither meat-specific protein nor a very high level of protein in order to fulfill its basic dietary requirements. Dogs are able to healthily digest a variety of foods including [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable]vegetables[/link] and [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereal]grains[/link], and in fact can consume a large proportion of these in their diet."

edie,
         I can see how that sentence could be misunderstood, I read it again, what I meant by it was more or less that I should NOT impose a veggie diet .[]

no it means you are an omnivore. dogs can and do get some sustanance from veggies. this also makes them an omnivore. cats on the other require meat in their diet, making them an obligate carnivore. []

from wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog):

"The classification in the Order [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivora]Carnivora[/link] does not necessarily mean that a dog's diet must be restricted to [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat]meat[/link]; unlike an obligate carnivore, such as the [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat]cat[/link] family with its shorter [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_intestine]small intestine[/link], a dog is dependent on neither meat-specific protein nor a very high level of protein in order to fulfill its basic dietary requirements. Dogs are able to healthily digest a variety of foods including [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable]vegetables[/link] and [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereal]grains[/link], and in fact can consume a large proportion of these in their diet."

 
 
Exactly, the only way to a strict meat diet is to feed  meat only, no kibble. Most dogfood has a rice or cornmeal base.

Don#%92t believe everything you read on wikipedia, a 4-year-old child can post their opinion on wikipedia.
 Let#%92s look at some fact.  In their raw form, grains and veggies are unusable for carnivores (dogs).  We must prepare (cook) these ingredients if any benefit is to be derived for the animal.  A green bean comes out the other end looking like a green bean because the dogs body cannot use it.  Why are raw veggies passed through the body whole?  The answer should be clearly evident, the dogs body cannot use the material, the body cannot break it down.  Mankind must therefore interfere and make the vegetable ingredient usable by cooking.  If we therefore must interfere for an ingredient to become useable, it obviously not a “natural” ingredient for the dogs body.  There can be only one logical conclusion, dogs are carnivores.  Imposing a strict veggie diet on a dog means slow starvation.  That animal will eventually die.

Exactly, the only way to a strict meat diet is to feed  meat only, no kibble. Most dogfood has a rice or cornmeal base.

 
Most dog food is not the best food to feed a dog.  It's cheap and convenient for the owner.  For example Ol#%92Roy is the top selling dog food in the US but it#%92s also the worse food to feed any dog yet people feed it because they simply don#%92t know any better.  If you look around here many owners feed their dog a raw meat or home cooked diet and also stay on the high end of dog food kibble.  When I look for a kibble if meat isn't the first ingredient I won't even bother with that food.

ok if you dont like wikipedia here is another link saying basically the same thing.....

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Canis_lupus_familiaris.html

this site states that "A dog's diet should consist of balanced porportions of proteins, carbohydrates, fats and, of course, water. A dog can go days without food and lose 30% to 40% of it's body weight without dying, but a 10% to 15% water loss could be fatal. All-meat diets are not recommended for dogs due to the lack of calcium and iron found in meat."

how would a dog get carbohydrates into its diet without comsuming (and metabolizing) veggies and/or grains?

this site also list the dog's primary diet as being omnivore.

again, i am not saying that our dogs would ever be fed a vegetarian diet (nor should they), but they do need some veggies and grains in their diets.

Dogs can't digest whole vegetable material and their teeth aren't designed to break it down enough it be digestible.. They do eat veggies, but unless the veggies are cooked or pureed they can't get any benefit out of them.

[linkhttp://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/%7EALRF/giintro.htm]This[/link] is from Director of Studies in Medical and Veterinary Sciences, Dr A.L.R. Findlay, Physiological Laboratory, University of Cambridge

Efficient digestion (particularly microbial digestion) and absorption depend on an adequately slow movement of digesta through the tract; movement of digesta through the large intestine in a non-ruminant herbivore, such as the horse, is much slower than in a carnivore, such as the dog.

Carnivores obtain most of their food by eating other animals, and their digestion relies largely on enzymes rather than micro-organisms. Microbial digestion of cellulose occurs in the colon of the dog, but to such a small extent that the colon can be removed and the dog can survive perfectly well.

The small intestine of all mammals digests soluble carbohydrate, fat and protein, but cannot digest cellulose. The dog on a normal diet depends almost entirely on its small intestine for its nutrition.

That said, I would feed a vegetarian kibble if for some reason there was no other choice for that particular dog. I wouldn't trust myself enough to balance a homemade vegetarian diet though.

I thought this would be a helpful topic, until the whole carnivore/omnivore thing started up again...[sm=rolleyes.gif]

The carnivore/omnivore thing happens to be relevant to a topic about vegetarian dogs and optimal diets.

ORIGINAL: sooner

The carnivore/omnivore thing happens to be relevant to a topic about vegetarian dogs and optimal diets.

Oh I know, but it always turns to the same sensless debate

ORIGINAL: sooner

The carnivore/omnivore thing happens to be relevant to a topic about vegetarian dogs and optimal diets.

ditto. it is a shame that even the experts cannot agree on whether dogs are carnivores or omnivores. i have read several differring opions written by much more highly educated people than myself.

that said, whether dogs are carnivores or omnivores, all the studies i have read agree that meat should be an important part of a dogs diet. even the papers that state dogs can survive on a vegetarian diet, also state that you have to heavily suppliment those diets.