Has anyone tried Natural Way Dog Food ?

    • Bronze

    Has anyone tried Natural Way Dog Food ?

    I am currently feeding my puppy (5 month) IAMs, but I really want to switch brands. IAMS is what the breeder was feeding her. I was thinking about switching to Authority Harvest Baked Puppy food, but then I got a free sample of this dog food "Natural Way" from my veterinarian along with a coupon for a free 5lb bag of dog food. I am wondering what anyone thinks of this food?

    These are the ingredients:

    Lamb Meal, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Poultry Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Natural Flavors, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Taurine, Vitamins: Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Source Of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamin Mononitrate (Source Of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source Of Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Minerals: Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite.

    thanks,
    Bonni
    • Puppy
    Lamb Meal, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Poultry Fat

     
    Hi
    Alot of RICE.  Do you want to be feeding your dog a food made primarily with RICE? and if so, why?  Dried Beet Pulp is a filler also, and most times sugary.  Poultry Fat usually comes from or with the oils and many times is sprayed onto the food to make the dog want to eat it.    I would not say that this food is any better or any different from feeding Iams except it is lamb based instead of chicken or beef.  I used to feed Diamond Lamb and RIce and my pups and dogs were always getting diarrhea.  I used to give a bag with each pup I sold and every person switched their pup off the Diamond.  So did I!!
    Carol
    • Bronze
    Yes, it does seem to have a lot of rice. I was told that corn was bad for dogs because some are allergic and others have a hard time digesting it.
     
    Is that the same thing with rice? And what about Ground Whole Wheat?
     
    Bonni
    • Puppy
    Bonni
    Corn, wheat, rice, beet pulp, these are all FILLERS, put in to expand the product at a relatively low cost to the manufacturer.  Dogs are carvivorous animals ( at least for the most part) and I have yet to see a dog grazing in a wheat field or munching on corn in a corn field.  Corn is for cattle, chickens, animals being fattened up for slaughter, horses, grazing animals.  And corn, in too much quantity, creates heat and can easily cripple a horse.  Makes for delicious corn fed prime beef, though!  
    So, unless you are planning on dining on your dog, I would say that any food ( dry) should have beef, chicken, turkey, fish , either whole or meal before you would be wanting to see grain products.  Otherwise, you can feed your dog bread...or, let 'em eat cake!  (joke).  Heck, that isn't even good for US and we are omnivorous.
    Carol
    • Gold Top Dog
    My judgement is that it has a lot of fillers, beet pulp, 'natural flavors' and 'dried egg product'. 

    If it is a good price it's a decent middle of the road food IMO. However if it's very expensive it's a rip off.

    IMO
    Paula
    • Gold Top Dog
    Dried Beet Pulp is a filler also, and most times sugary.

     
    According to SillySally, beet pulp is the by-product left over after extracting the sugar from it for human foods. That is, the beet pulp is without sugar.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Rice has protein, minerals, such as zinc, and carbohydrates.

    The ingredient list is by weight prevalence. So, for example, let's say a bag of food has 2.4 lbs of meat. I don't know of anyone who knows if that is weight during processing, as I don't see how you determine the weight of an ingredient in the finished product. All you can determine in the finished product is the guaranteed analysis on an as-fed basis. A grain fraction listed after that will weigh less than what is before it. Nor does that mean that the grain listed right after the meat is, say, 2.3 pounds. The recipe, whatever it is, is proprietary, and not subject to disclosure. And, some of the protein described in the guaranteed analysis may actually come from the grain or potato ingredient. That is, whatever ingredient is listed with carbohydrates will also contain some protein, especially in the case of grain. The ingredient list is not a mathematical formula. And, many kibbles, including the "premiums" may have 40 % or more carbohydrates, regardless of how many meat sources are listed. It is possible for a food that looks grainy to be quite meaty, with just enough grains and supps to balance the calcium/phosphorous ratio.

    FWIW, I don't consider feeding horses and dogs the same thing. They have different physiologies and metabolisms. The same with cows. How they handle grains is different than how a horse, a human, or a dog handles grains.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't consider feeding horses and dogs the same thing. They have different physiologies and metabolisms. The same with cows. How they handle grains is different than how a horse, a human, or a dog handles grains.


    Do you think, perhaps, that a horse, a cow or a cow - being 100% herbivores, might be somewhat better equipped to handle grain than a dog? Or even a human, adapted to thrive on a very wide range of plant and animal material? So the fact that they are different does not seem to bear on the argument previously made that: if cows and horses don't thrive on grains, dogs are less likely, being even farther on the carnivorous side of the food chain. I'm not taking a stand on that particular statement, just seeking some clarification since denying the antecedent of the original poster's argument doesn't get us anywhere.
    • Gold Top Dog
    if cows and horses don't thrive on grains, dogs are less likely, being even farther on the carnivorous side of the food chain.


    Gosh Brookcove you make the best "food for thought" posts [:D] The things you come out with always make sense and really make me have to use the ol' brain [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    We use to feed corn to our cow and plow horses.  Filled the corn crib each summer and had enough to last til the next summer.  The cow did get the most by far.    Also "shelled" it off the cobs to give to our chickens.
    • Gold Top Dog
    some clarification since denying the antecedent of the original poster's argument doesn't get us anywhere.

     
    Others do that all the time, though I wasn't trying to. Nor am I trying to imply that humans or dogs are less able to handle grains, we just handle them differently. Part of this is due to physiology. A cow has 4 stomachs, as you know. Humans and dogs, just one. Nor do I know enough about how each species handles grains. People with much more expertise and credentials than I have figured that out. Nor, do I know if cows are better equipped, even though they someone once said that they have better grinding molars or that they have 4 stomachs.
     
    As for horses handling grains better, how about the thread by Billy where he's had to deal with horses getting colic from eating to much grain? A human eats a whole meal of grain and we just poop a lot but we don't get so blocked up and sick that someone has to put us out of our misery. A dog may or may not poop a lot from a lot of grain but survives anyway. Perhaps it is because humans and dogs have a faster GIT, I'm not sure on that one.
    • Gold Top Dog
       I think it's a good food; yeah, it has rice listed three times but there are two meat meals in the first five ingredients which is good. Corn rarely causes allergies and you need to remember the dog isn't being fed raw corn but corn that has been cooked and processed to be digestible; it's a good source of linoleic acid, but this food doesn't have corn. Sugar is removed from beet pulp by the sugar producers before it's sold to dog food companies and beet pulp is a good source of fiber and a prebiotic. I would prefer to see the beet pulp listed after the canola oil and poultry fat though since the bulk of the ingredients are listed before the fat. Dried egg product can be made from whole eggs and often is; if you're concerned about it ask the company. You didn't post the guaranteed analysis.
    • Gold Top Dog
    My neighbor feeds it, he gets it at Kroger, the ingredients for the adult foods are almost identical to the Nutro Natural foods, which lots of dogs seem to do really well on, also I gave my dog a handful cause she is a very picky eater, and she seemed to like it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Perhaps it is because humans and dogs have a faster GIT, I'm not sure on that one.


    I am NOT picking on you Ron - you just get the synapses firin'.

    OK, here's the scoop (warning, long and not exactly dinner talk):

    Ruminants (cow, sheep, deer) are equipped to digest cellulose via a system of stomachs, specialized gi flora, and highly specialized dentition (cutting apparatus up front, heavy duty grinders in back). They chomp grass, swallow (they do not chew at this stage), then the rumen mixes the chopped plants with a soup full of probiotics but NO gastric juices (the rumen is not a true stomach). The animal fills its rumen, then stops grazing for a bit. During that time, the rumen will send back up the glob of plant material and bacteria (plus some gasses produced by the probiotics). The animal chews, chews, chews, chews and chews, swallows, then the probiotics go to work on the newly exposed cellular matter. The glob may be sent back up four or five more times (along with more gas), then the last time it goes into the stomach, having been converted to material the stomach can work with - sugars, protein chains, complex carbs, and a little fat.

    In a ruminant, grain, for the most part, bypasses the rumen and goes straight to the stomach. The rumen, sitting idle, begins to shift the gi's ph down towards the acidic side, which in turn makes it difficult to digest the protein in the grain, which activates the pancreas to produce more acid, and so on until the animal dies of massive indigestion. This situation only arises when grain is fed exclusively, long term, but it is inevitable. To prevent this, feed lots lace their feed with two different antibiotics - one to kill the rumen bacteria and help fend off salmonella and e.coli, and one to prevent a disease which results from standing around in highly acidic manure.

    We can use a small amount of grain-based feed (no more than 10% of the diet) to manipulate breeding cycles and maintain condition during stressful situations, but good grass or hay is always essential to have on hand. A sick sheep (or one in labor) will not eat grain, but will nibble hay or grass until literally unconcious.

    http://faculty.fortlewis.edu/LASHELL_B/Nutr2-Rumdigestion.pdf#search=%22ruminant%20digestion%22

    Non-ruminant herbivores (monogastric) have a specialized area in the large intestine (cecum), where cellulose-digesting biotics work to break down plant material though a slow fermentation process. The digestive system up to this point is very short and very rapid. The stomach is comparatively small and nearly useless as a storage area - anything eaten goes right through. It is VERY important that soluble carbs such as those found in young tender grass, and grains of course, reach the cecum fermentation area in VERY small amounts.

    http://www.merricks.com/digestion.html

    The fermentation process is indiscriminate. A large amount of soluble carbs reaching the lower intestine all at once will kill a horse extremely quickly when gas (see above) is produced and has nowhere to go. Unlike with ruminants, modern science has not figured out a way to force horses to thrive on grain alone. As we know, however, horses can thrive with judicious use of grain to enhance performance, with hay or grass making up the bulk of their diets.

    People have a similiar ability to absorb some nutrients in the large intestine, but we have a much slower upper gi which is very difficult to overwhelm. We have an extremely large stomach capacity for our size which can reserve a huge amount of food and only complain a little - or if we REALLY overdo, we can throw up (horses cannot). You can eat your cake and have it too. [:D] Humans have a tremendous capacity to abuse their systems, which is probably a highly adaptive trait if you think about it. We can survive in the widest range of climates of any large mammal. We have a longer lifespan to average out our nutritive choices.

    Dogs can also vomit (think of how important this is for a niche feeder) and have a comparatively large true stomach. Food material sits in this chamber for much longer than it does for people, allowing for a longer period to break down proteins and fat (see ruminant, true stomach, above). However, their gi is much faster (similiar to the horse), but they lack, for the most part, the large fermentation area in the cecum which causes problems for the horse in absorbing soluble carbs quickly.

    I don't know what implications you can draw from this comparision. I know that nutrtionists are moving away from emphazing grain in any herbivores other than high-performance/high-production animals. http://ohioline.osu.edu/gsg/gsg_1.html

    Even among some of those camps there are movements to go to completely grass-based feeding programs. More and more of your milk will likely come from managed grazing operations, where dairy cows (there is no higher-need animal on earth) are fed nothing but grass and hay all year. [linkhttp://tinyurl.com/ejb6p]Here's an article on grass-based production.[/link]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am NOT picking on you Ron - you just get the synapses firin'.

     
    I'll take that as a compliment. And I'll try to answer in this one post, as I now have a post counter tracking me.
     
    So, the GITs of horse, cow, dog, and human are different. And grains are handled differently by each one. Kind of what I thought. Although, I may ask for clarification in that the horse can't vomit and can overeat, regardless of what it is eating, n'est pas? Also, the grains are in different form for each animal. Humans may often eat grains as bread or crackers. Dogs eat finely ground and cooked grains in their kibble. When I open a bag of dog food, I don't see rice patties floating. And horses may eat whole grains or pelletized grain, I suppose? I knew I should have asked one of my co-workers today. He has a couple of horses. Of course, if you answer my questions, I will probably reply, which will increase my post count by at least one.