Where can I find...

This is a decent site http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/health/vitmins.htm It is very hard to get enough vitamins and minerals out of food without over eating. This one has a chart you can go through to find out what foods contain which vitamins. I researched for weeks to find a well balanced supplement without meat in it . My dogs are vegetarians and I home cook for them and needed a well balanced supplement for them. This is what I chose. http://www.platinumperformance.com/Canine/departments/2/ Hope this helps

 Thanks! I'll check out those sites.

 Vegetarians? Why?? Isn't it hard to get everything in, without meat?

 

Nutritiondata.org is the site I use to find out what a food has in it, and I use the table in Optimum Nutrition to plug them into. Someone on here made a fabulous spreadsheet, but I can't remember who it was.... 

 Vegetarian? I thought dogs were carnivores. Could be wrong though.

tiffy

 Vegetarian? I thought dogs were carnivores. Could be wrong though.

 

That's what I've always been taught... my dogs LOVE their raw bones!

jennie_c_d

Nutritiondata.org is the site I use to find out what a food has in it, and I use the table in Optimum Nutrition to plug them into. Someone on here made a fabulous spreadsheet, but I can't remember who it was.... 

 

I'll check out that site when I get home from Sandy's meeting.  I'm trying to do this with as little supplements as necessary.

Dogs don't absorb l-carnitine and taurine nearly as well from supplements as they do from meat.  I've moderated a veg*n messageboard for about 13 years, and it's a subject I've researched exhaustively.  There are recipes, and it can be done but it is extremely difficult to adjust a diet for dogs that is truly sufficient. 

Dogs are naturally carnivores.  They can be omnivores IF we help them by processing veggies so the cellulose is broken down adquately for them to get the nutrition out of it.  But it's very difficult to achieve enough protein *with* the amounts of l-carnitine and taurine actually being **absorbed** by the body.

I've seen many people have their dogs in veg*n diets but typically they get to be about 6-8 years old then wind up with heart problems.

I have several vet friends who have experiemented with this endlessly -- simply because a LOT of vets are actually veg*n (either vegetarian or vegan) -- think about it - they go to school a significant portion of their lives learning to SAVE animal lives, not take them.  So many of my veg*n vet friends have tried to devise appropriate diets for dogs to be adequately vegetarian but in the long term it is typically very disappointing because suddenly heart disease rears its ugly head.

Typically the dogs look healthy and suddenly you have cardio problems that were simply lurking for a long time.

I've never seen an adequate veg*n diet for a dog yet (whether kibble or home-prepared)  that gives you any real longevity at all.  And most of the people that I've corresponded with tend to stop emailing me when their dog's health fails.  On VegSource it's been discussed and debated for many many years -- but like I said -- longevity just doesn't seem to work out.

If you really want a veg*n pet, rabbits are way easier.  

 You might consider hiring a nutritionist to go over your recipe, if you want to be sure. I'm picky, like that, and some people aren't. You CAN do it without supplements, but it's more difficult.

 I am gonna be speaking with a nutritionist here on the coast. It's just a matter of saving up for her fee. Lol.  That's why for the time being, I'm doing as much research as possible.

According to Jean Dodds DMV a expert in canine nutrition and holistic medicine. Its possible for dogs to be vegetarians, just as its possible for humans to be. Also, the belief that there are certain proteins that can be found only in meat is a fallacy. There is a pervasive notion that dogs are carnivores and require meat for optimal health. However the conventional wisdom doesn't hold water. She does go on to say that as a compromise some owners add supplements or feed their dogs mainly vegetarian diets but include raw, meaty bones. It is especially important for young and growing dogs. She said that dogs unlike cats are not obligate carnivores. I had a lab mix that lived 20 years as a vegetarian. I know in the news there was a veggie dog named Tykie that has been a vegetarian since he was 8 weeks old that is over 24 and that border collie in England that is 27 that is a veggie dog. You will never convince me that with the state of the meat industry with all the hormones and pesticides is going to keep my dogs alive longer than a vegetarian diet. I would not eat it myself so why would I feed it to my dog.

oranges81

Right now Maze and Sandy are getting home cooked with a small portion of kibble to make up the supplements until I can figure it all out.

 

  You should make kibble the main portion of their diet until you know how to balance the cooked diet; a small amount of kibble will not provide them with enough nutrients. It is very important that you at least add the correct amount of calcium to balance the phosphorus in the cooked diet. I agree with what Jennie said about Nutritiondata.com, and the table in the book "Optimal Nutrition." You can get " Optimal Nutrition" by Monica Segal here; 

http://www.monicasegal.com/catalog/product.php?cPath=25&products_id=101

 It's $25. The table is in it and Monica Does a great job of explaining how to use it to calculate your dog's nutrient requirements. Good luck.

Dawnben

I would not eat it myself so why would I feed it to my dog.

 Becuase your dog is a carnivore, and you are not.

Dogs were originally carnivores but we evolved them to be omnivores like us. So I do not see the problems that all of you meat eaters do.

 We evolved them? Who is a meat eater?

 

Dogs still have the same GI tract as their ancestors. I haven't eaten meat in over 10 years. What does one have to do with the other?