Raw bone feeders, question for you.

willowchow

Yeah, her vet even recently told me to stop the fish oil.  She had gone to a seminar and they were saying in certain situations it can actually make the skin worse.

Lori,

Do you have any more info about this? I was just going to start Frisby on salmon oil (her vet agreed to this to help address her really dry skin). I haven't given her any bones--I'm too nervous with the IMHA!

Kate, I can ask her when I go Tuesday.  She told me she had been to a dermatology seminar recently where fish oil was one thing that they said could actually make things worse.  And, she had mentioned ingredients in other supplements as well.  But, fish oil is very good and can be helpful.  It's just that at times it doesn't help and/or stops working. 

I don't blame you one bit about being worried about the bones. I'm certainly worried.  But, trying hard to weigh my pros and cons. 

 Ooohh... I'm scared to try raw. what if I kill her?

Tiffy, I'm not sure I understand your above post. 

willowchow

But, I'm really damned if I do, damned if I don't with the bones.  She needed a dental YESTERDAY before the bones.  Now, I think I might be able to get away with skipping it.  I'm not totally sure because she does still have some redness at the gumline.  I'm not sure if this will resolve without scaling. 

I had to weigh the risks of bones vs anesthesia.  She had a very hard time with her spay and that was 7 years ago.  The breed doesn't do well with anesthesia at all and Willow is no exception. 

Oh no, I totally understand. Pirate does OK with anesthesia, and his teeth are pretty decent, so that's why I haven't pushed the issue.

Lori, does Willow actually eat the marrow bones?  Do you leave all the marrow in them?

Gibby gets at least one or two marrow bones per week.... but I take all the marrow out before giving them.  But he chews and gnaws on them for about an hour....gets some bone broken from the ends then tends to leave them. He will go back a little later and gnaw on it for about 5 minutes or so...but thats about it.  Once in a while I go thru his basket of toys and throw about 6 or 7 bones out that he had.  A couple of weeks ago I gave him a knuckle bone and he LOVED it a lot more than the marrow bone. He chewed it about an hour...I took it and froze it and gave him back a few days later for another hour. Took it one more time and its in the freezer now..but he is getting it smaller so not sure if I will give it back to him or just get him a new one. BUT,,,he got a little testy when he had to give it up the third time....not sure I want to deal with that.

His teeth look great but yet the vet found the teeth way in the back and inside had some tartar. Bubby used to get bones too....and yet her gums got infected and needed dental cleaning after all. I'm hoping by giving Gibby them when younger we can keep it in check.

dyan

Lori, does Willow actually eat the marrow bones?  Do you leave all the marrow in them?

No, she just chews them and pulls off whatever meat and fat is on the outside.  I take almost if not all the marrow out.  I know some people leave it in, but for her it's better removed. 

She does chew them for a long time when she first gets them, over an hour.  But, then usually only goes back for a few minutes if that.  So, I've just been throwing them out.  I haven't seen knuckle bones but if I do if it's a good size for her I'll definately try them. 

Thanks, Dyan.

Lori

willowchow

She does chew them for a long time when she first gets them, over an hour.  But, then usually only goes back for a few minutes if that.  So, I've just been throwing them out.  I haven't seen knuckle bones but if I do if it's a good size for her I'll definately try them. 

Gibby does also chew them for over an hour. I was shocked on New Years Day WITH all that company...he stayed with it almost 2 hours. He was laying on a blanket in front of the front door with it.....I was shocked that everytime someone walked in the door,,,he hardly looked up to see who it was...just kind of got up with his bone in his mouth and just kind of moved out of the way...then layed back down as soon as possible to chew it.

Of course then he went for the fudge...lol!

The knuckle bone that I got him was GIANT..... I mean GIANT.....and knuckles are softer than the marrow bones..so he had a blast.  One grocery store will cut knuckles for me. But the other store I shop at gets only marrow bones in already frozen.  I was there today and asked the butcher because there was only one package and the bones were too small in that package...he said they have a box in the back and they are all kind of small. So if thats the case I will go where they will cut them.....should anyway because its fresher.   That store will also sell me turkey necks when they have them.  I have some in the freezer but haven't had the guts to give them to Gibby yet.

All I know from starting raw 9 months ago is that their teeth are becoming every-so-white and shiny. This is occurring with a 3 year old, a 5.5 year old, and a 6 year old dog, none of whom have ever had cleanings or teeth brushings. There is still some tartar on a couple of the teeth (the ones not used heavily in chewing), but I know in a short time that too will be gone. Zipper's teeth are worn naturally from chewing, so I don't give him a lot of dense bones to chew so that we don't promote any more wearing, but I cannot be more pleased with their health.

I too am one who changed even though I never saw anything "wrong" with my guys, they were always on top-notch kibble diets. But even now, nothing compares to what the raw has done for them! They are in fabulous shape, with none of that "kibble" fat-squishyness. They have great coats, although I do add fish oil because I don't feed my guys much pure whole fish. I don't do much other than that, though.

Gosh.....a big question here though....are we talking raw feeding...or raw bones and kibble feeding?  Kim...sounds like your talking raw feeding in general.   Do you think that feeding kibble AND raw bones would have the same effect?

I ask because I am feeding kibble...and my dogs get lots of bones.   Gibby since he was a baby....and I was shocked that the last comprehensive exam found tartar on his teeth. 

I know that Kim raw feeds, as do I.  I am certain that we do it differently though.  Both Bevo & Shooter believe that, if they can fit a piece of meat into their mouth, then they can swallow it whole.  Because of this, I grind their meals.  Bevo routinely eats whole rabbitts.  They are just ran through the grinder first.  So everything, fur, bone, meat, guts are still there, just roughly ground.

I'm pretty sure that Kim gives whole pieces, such as backs, wings, & necks.  And, if I am wrong, please correct me Kim.

We use recreational bones such as shanks, & knuckle bones, which the do eventually eat, for our teeth cleaning/entertainment chews.

They also get lamb pelvis, which still has lots of meat on it & takes a while to wear down, pork & beef ribs, spines, & some times shoulder.

 I feed kibble, with bones for fun. Raw was utter fail, for Emma, who has a slew of issues (including an allergy to human dander, so the less handing, the better). Everybody here eats according to Emma's needs, so kibble it is. I have had oustanding results, with her, switching to the hellish RX diet. I have no kibble "squish" and she is eating less than she ever has, but, again, she has extremely ridiculous digestive issues WITH food and evironmental allergies.

This week, I'm going to a real butcher, for bones, hearts, and livers. I'll have to post pictures I'm sure the girlz will be THRILLED!

 Amanda do you give Bevo or any of the larger dogs beef ribs or pork ribs?  They make me very nervous with beastie, I have seen them splinter when he can be bothered to chew them.  He has a nasty habit of putting the whole thing in his mouth.

I would love to go all raw with B but his poultry allergies really make it impossible to keep cost down AND I can't find meaty bones regularly for him.  I am however fed up of not being able to get Orjen fresh fish so he has been getting more raw meals than he ever has.

I have a great source for knuckle bones and he loves those and gets them regularly

I actually do a combination of both. In the beginning I fed mostly large, bone-in foods such as chicken leg quarters or ribs or fish. Lately though, for convenience more than anything, I've been feeding ground. We can get chicken necks/backs really cheap and a few of us buy in bulk (our last order was 800 lbs). However, in general necks and backs are way to bony to eat as-is, so I grind all my share and then will use it with organs and other boneless meats to round it out. My main "menu" of foods right now is ground chicken (bone-in), ground beef, pork riblets, different types of organs, and ground turkey necks.

I still do give bone-in foods, sometimes it depends too on what sales are on and what foods I pick up. tomorrow for instance I am giving chicken leg quarters instead of ground chicken. It's also easier for me to feed ground meats in the winter in dishes because they are eating all their meals indoors, whereas in the summer they often eat outside, but it's too cold this time of year for that. So I do a bit of both, depending on what is going on.

But keep in mind, too, for me, I have small dogs, so I don't need big pieces to make them have to work for it. It would be different for a large dog where a full chicken would make up a meal!!

In terms of feeding raw bones and kibble, or raw diet in general, I would wager a guess to say that I would not be surprised to see a dog who ate kibble and chewed on RMB's to still get tartar. It's the kibble that generally causes all that tartar buildup, so while RMB's would definitely help, I would still think you'd find some tartar buildup there. It may depend as much on the dog, though, and how much a dog "chews". Whereas in all-raw diets the dogs are not getting a lot of the tartar-building compounds that exist in kibble (all the unneeded, extra stuff not found in homemade diets) to begin with, and even with ground raw diets the dogs have the natural enzymes to break down anything in the mouth with meats and bones, whereas they don't have enzymes to break down a lot of the kibble ingredients, and there are still little bony pieces to scrape the teeth, and pieces of skin/cartilage/tendon to act as floss.

willowchow

I can ask her when I go Tuesday.  She told me she had been to a dermatology seminar recently where fish oil was one thing that they said could actually make things worse

If you get a minute to ask her, that would be great--thank you! I've tried to read up a bit, too, but haven't looked at MedLine literature yet.

willowchow

But, trying hard to weigh my pros and cons

Thanks, Lori!