Teaching Fetch

 With Max, I backchained it. He was able to do it, and he would do it and appeared to like it for short stints of time. However, he never really seemed to love it, and wouldn't do it for a long time. Luke I didn't really teach that much, but he can do it well enough for our purposes. I started out using two balls, and swapping out that way. Basically, if I would squeak one, he'd drop what he had to get the other. Just last week, he actually started dropping the ball without the second one. He doesn't drop it in my hand, but he comes and sits within arms reach, and drops the ball on the ground.  Luke has a good toy drive though, and has the instinctive behavior to drag things back to the den. He'll leave his food for a toy, and up in the living room, we have a big bed. It's way too big for him, but he'll take all the toys and drag them all to it.

The first dog we had was mostly a black lab, and she didn't retrieve, and when we got her, she didn't know how to swim. She would chase down a ball, but good luck ever getting it back. 

Liesje

KarissaKS

I think fetch is a game that some dogs enjoy (to an obsession...) and some dogs don't.  You can't force fetch on a dog, outside of treating it as an obedience exercise.

 

I agree.  I originally replied on another board but I said I really don't see the usefulness of backchaining for fetch.  It is useful for formal retrieves in obedience, but as for fetch, I think it's a fun game based on the dog's drives.  I think it *can* be developed, but not really by backchaining.  The way I see it, the toy must be the reward, not clicking and giving treats for fetching the toy.  To me that's not fetch, that's a retrieve.  Nikon did not come with a lot of ball drive and did not care to fetch.  However we have built his ball drive to pure obsession and he will now fetch until he passes out with exhaustion.  There was no obedience involved other than training the out, which was only done last week Friday (and he has been fetching for months, but I use two balls or get him off the ball myself).  Basically I started out with back-tying and using restraint to build the dog's drive and frustration for the ball.  Once he transfered drive to the ball, I started the fetch game on a long line so I could "reel" him in to me.  Now he understands that the game is no fun if he grabs the toy and runs off.  Because of his SchH training I had to wait to train the out, but for Maze you can also start with that right away, using a trade method (two of the same toy), or making the toy be "dead" (no more tug and movement, then say "out" when she drops it and immediately make it "alive" again).

 

Maze has an "Out", it's just a matter of her bringing the ball back. So I'm thinking of Backchaining with Maze and doing something different with Sandy.

Sandy doesn't have an "Out" since she never grabs something that I need her to drop. Lol. Should work on that..

 Do they like tug?  That's how Rafe ended up fetching.  Before he would run after the ball, but never bring it back.  After doing some schutzhund drive work and tugging with balls and jute tugs, etc., he started chasing it and bringing it back on his own because he wanted me to tug with him.  I think some dogs enjoy the chase, but enjoy tugging more.  ;) Just an idea, and it might be a little easier than backchaining if it works.

Or, you could get 50 chuck-it balls, then you'd only have to go down and get them after playtime was over... ;)

Workingdoglover

Or, you could get 50 chuck-it balls, then you'd only have to go down and get them after playtime was over... ;)

LOL! But I dun wanna walk to the other end of the field!

Maze LOVES tug. I use it as her reward in Agility. Sandy has no tug. Lol.  I think I may buy a ball on a rope and try and use tugging as a reward when she brings it back, before I throw it again. Hmmm.. Now to find a place on the coast that sells toys like that...

oranges81

Sandy doesn't have an "Out" since she never grabs something that I need her to drop.

Doesn't matter, just play tug and teach "out" that way.  If she gets REALLY into it, she'll probably bring it back just to play tuggy anyways....

oranges81

Maze LOVES tug. I use it as her reward in Agility. Sandy has no tug. Lol.  I think I may buy a ball on a rope and try and use tugging as a reward when she brings it back, before I throw it again. Hmmm.. Now to find a place on the coast that sells toys like that...

 Sounds like that would work for Maze, at least.  And you can always make your own ball on a string, too, if you can find a decent ball.  Or break down and order one...  ;)

 Bah! Ordering. Lol. I'm gonna make a make-shift one to do until I can find a decent one. Cuz the way Maze tugs, the make-shift one won't last long. Lol I've got a tennis ball that still in new condition that came in their Secret Santa pack. I was smart and put it away.

Chuffy: I never thought to teach Sandy tugging and out at the same time.. Geez I'm slow these days. Lol

 I read through the replies AFTER I posted, and I did what Liesje said.... kinda went zombie-fied so the dog went "huh?  why did you go all weird and boring?" and the moment they let go, re-start the game with enthusiasm.

When he seemed to be getting the hang of it, I stuck my cue in (I use LEAVE but you can use out, leave, give, dropit.... whatever).

Lastly, I would introduce fetch really subtly just after they are getting really good at (and enjoying) the Out Game.  So, when the let go and you throw a party to praise them, just "accidentally" toss the toy a foot or so.  The dog should pounce on it and whip round to play tug again.  LOTS of praise and tug and then rinse repeat, throwing it just a little further next time.

oranges81

Maze has an "Out", it's just a matter of her bringing the ball back. So I'm thinking of Backchaining with Maze and doing something different with Sandy.

Sandy doesn't have an "Out" since she never grabs something that I need her to drop. Lol. Should work on that..

If you are thinking of using fetch as far as ball/toy drive, the out can be detrimental.  At least in Nikon's case I did not teach it at all until he was super obsessed with the ball and possessive of it.  The more they want to chase down and possess that toy, the more enjoyable fetch will be and the more useful the toy will be for training and motivation.

Contrary to what some people teach, you do *not* need an out to start tugging and fetching with your dog.

Liesje

oranges81

Maze has an "Out", it's just a matter of her bringing the ball back. So I'm thinking of Backchaining with Maze and doing something different with Sandy.

Sandy doesn't have an "Out" since she never grabs something that I need her to drop. Lol. Should work on that..

 

If you are thinking of using fetch as far as ball/toy drive, the out can be detrimental.  At least in Nikon's case I did not teach it at all until he was super obsessed with the ball and possessive of it.  The more they want to chase down and possess that toy, the more enjoyable fetch will be and the more useful the toy will be for training and motivation.

Contrary to what some people teach, you do *not* need an out to start tugging and fetching with your dog.

Hmmm.. In that case, I think I'll hold off teaching Sandy out right now.  I started yesterday but as soon as she dropped the ball after I said "Out", she thought the game was done..

 This is how I taught fetch to my dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9CfSTHCroQ