Talk to me about Homecooking

    • Gold Top Dog

    Talk to me about Homecooking

     Honestly.  I've done raw for so long that my dogs diets are almost an unconsious effort for me.  I know lots of people have been doing raw for way longer than me obviously, but for me raw is pretty much a no brainer.  But my dogs get no grains, no potatoes, and no bargains...I live in Canada, there aren't many deals on meat around here.  So raw gets pretty expensive.  Still I'm not exactly ready to throw in the towel yet.  We will keep Raw in their diets, probably forever.  I would like to add some cooked stuff though.  But for some reason I have a complete mental block against it. 

    So who Homecooks here and how do you manage it?  How often do you cook for your dogs, how do you store, serve, portion etc.  Do you change it up, or use the same recipe each time?  Tell my anything you think might be useful please.

    Thanks

    • Gold Top Dog
    I do a combo diet - carbs and a couple fruits, veggies, and canned or steamed fish, plus raw meaty bones/raw meat. I start by giving my dogs as much of the basics via the meat as possible, then adding the best carbs for their lifestyle or health status. Adding the carbs throws off the mineral balance, so I end up most of the time, having to add back in odds and ends like copper, zinc, maganese, potassium, etc. I cook once a week but I've got a huge pack so I really don't have a choice. But, I prep stuff ahead as I go. So I may have a month's worth of carrots for one dog stashed away, and couple months zucchini if I come across a good deal, and so forth. I have one of those roaster ovens and use that to do all the steaming at once. On prep day, I cook the grains, the potatoes, steam the veggies, and throw it all in the processor. I do each dog seperately once all th eingredient are prepped, as their diets are slightly different. The boneless meats go in baggies with the mushy mixture and are frozen in daily portions. I have a commercial upright freezer with shelves in the door - this is handy for lining up everyone's meals on a different shelf. The meats are simply bagged up in weekly portions - for instance, Lynn gets about two pounds of turkey necks, one pound of chicken quarters, and one pound of pork rib. I don't try to divide that into daily portions - instead, I just thaw the two pounds of necks and feed that over three days, then split the quarter, then feed the two ribs or the one big rib and she'll have a half-fast the last day. I use the same recipe unless there's some reason to change. There's enough variety within the recipes for good health. I hope this helps.
    • Gold Top Dog

    I have 3 immune-compromised dogs so I don't do raw.  I do about 30% meat and the rest veggie -- sometimes I add barley if the vet tells me to or if it comes out way too soupy. (I put meds in their food so too liquidy will melt capsules)

    I cook enough for a week at a time -- I cook the veggies first (in shifts) and dump in a dishpan I keep just for that purpose.  Then I mash them with a potato masher (i.e., you don't peel sweet potato or anything else- you cut it up or food process it).  The last thing I cook is the meat (and don't over-cook it).  I get most everything ground (just because of my own strength issues and time - I gotta keep this do-able).  I never throw away any veggie water -- to reserve any vitamins I can. 

    I use a huge variety of veggies and meats.  I do seasonal stuff, I tailor it to their needs at the time.  I do white fish, ground beef, ground turkey, ground pork, lamb, etc.  Some organ meat -- I prefer heart to liver (clean organs when possible rather than an organ that filters blood).  I do veggies I don't usually even cook for us -- kale is almost the perfect vegetable -- super nutritious and it's bulky and they love it.  But it's a p.i.t.a. to cook cos it's tough. 

    Some folks love a food processor and I hate them.  I don't have a dishwasher and to me it's just dirty, and work intensive when with 5 more chops the food is CHOPPED.  It *grin* busts my bustle to think I have to cut it up to get it small enough to put THRU the food processor so why do I have to do both??

    Megan (Pirate's Mom) LOVES it.  That's why there is variety in this world I guess!!!

    I cook everything in water in a table-top roaster.  Steam/parboiling/boiling ... I don't bake NUFFIN (I live in Florida folks -- and ANY oven makes your house hot down here).

    sometimes I add in pineapple or applesauce or whatever fruit is easy -- or I save the fruit for "treats".

    • Gold Top Dog

     Thanks Becca and Callie.  That helps alot.  I think I'm going to start adding in some homecooked.

    Um...Callie, is heart not muscle meat?  I thought it was?  Heart is not an organ as far as most of the raw diets I've read up on  go.  

    Do you add bonemeal or anything in Callie?  or Calcium?  I think if I feed more necks and backs I can get some extra bone in to make up for the extra meat in the cooked food.  I'm going to have to make a whole new spreadsheet again...and use it again too!  I haven't even really looked at the one I made last year, in months...

    • Gold Top Dog

    If heart is not an organ then what's making blood pump in my chest?  Yes it's an organ.  I can never understand why it's not used more - it's a CLEAN organ, not just an organ.  It's possibly not as easy to find as frozen/fresh beef liver.

    I add calcium.  What I'm using currently is "natural calcium" I get thru my vet.  It's not bone meal (which I use sometimes).  Sometimes I use calcium citrate.  The one I'm using right now I add 1 teas. per pound of meat (raw).

    The place I depart from most of the other food ladies is I don't do spreadsheets, plans, recipes, weigh/measure -- I go get groceries and eyeball what will make up to about what I need.  The same way I'd buy groceries for us.  I know I've gotta have at least 8 pounds of meat, and about 6 or more veggies (or veggie blends) in about so much volume to create a week's worth of food.

    I have a microscopic kitchen with crappy electricity and my fridge is a tiny half-size fridge ... so I make it all work, I cook once a week and portion it out.  I vary it constantly with what's in season, what I can get my hands on and sometimes it's hugely influenced by how much time I have. 

    THIS WEEK time is an unbelievable premium -- we're doing something Sunday which is my dog food day -- so this week veggie prep has to be a bare minimum -- so white potato rather than sweet, carrots as my orange veg (cos they don't require cutting up - I can mash them) and no long-cook veggies like kale but a lot of frozen stuff that's already chopped and cleaned. 

    Part of what this all has to come down to is what is DO-ABLE.   It does no earthly good to start something as such a huge deal that you can't do it week after week. 

    So find your balance and do the best you can that you can keep doing.  If a spreadsheet helps you great.  It would make ME beyond nuts.  The important thing it so do fresh food somehow. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    If I had all small companion/toy breeds, that have lived for generations on "people food" I'd probably be a lot more casual too. But when I require out of my dogs what I do, the least I can do for them is treat them like we do human athletes, and act as their team nutritionist. I use heart as muscle meat. Heart does not differ nutritionally from muscle - semantically it's an "organ" but when I'm looking for something that will provide zinc, selenium, and B and E vitamins - heart meat does not offer any of that. Beef heart is a particularly good source of iron and copper, however, which is vital if poultry makes up a lot of your diet. Chicken heart is only slightly better than chicken meat itself in terms of mineral so I rarely bother with it. Sheep heart is extremely nicely balanced but it's hard to find in North America. Pork kidney has the highest concentrations of selenium you can find in any readily available meat source. Selenium is vital for dogs working in heat - without the antioxidants they are susceptible to corneal lesions and early hearing impairment. Healthy kidneys excrete what they filter into the urinary system, so I'm not concerned with any buildup of "toxins" - what they filter primarily is nitrogen and other components of food that are left over from the ATP process - we call them "toxins" because you'd die if these built up in your blood, but they are not "poison" otherwise. Ie, it's gross but you could drink straight urine and not die. Your healthy kidney would simply refilter the waste products. My pastor's kidney's have failed. Toxins build in his system until he gets dialysis. He'd die from trying the above stunt.
    • Gold Top Dog

    brookcove
    If I had all small companion/toy breeds, that have lived for generations on "people food" I'd probably be a lot more casual too. But when I require out of my dogs what I do, the least I can do for them is treat them like we do human athletes, and act as their team nutritionist.

    Yes, and at the SAME time if I asked MY dogs (only 2 of which are 'small' but not tiny and 2 are medium) to utilize tons of protein that they have no way to burn off THAT wouldn't be healthy either. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Actually my "performance" diets are pretty moderate protein in terms of percentages, compared to some of the canned and kibbles out there.

    What I do for all my dogs, is start with what the dog needs in protein, in absolute grams determined by body weight (NRC guidelines). I do muscle meat and raw meaty bones, and the dab of organ meat (pork kidney for everyone) to get to that level. Then I look at what that gives me in terms of kcals. I just enter amounts - the spreadsheet does the work for me because it's already set up with the ingredients I use.

    A small/medium dog like Maggie, and a toy dog like Zhi, can both stop right there pretty much. Usually they are only one or two hundred kcals short for the week. For them, I'll add a bit of potato, some squash, a teeny bit of fruit, fish and herbs. The potato is to make up the kcals without increasing ash levels. The rest is not for any specific nutrients. My style is to keep it simple - if the meat doesn't provide what they need, then I'll use supplements to do the rest.

    Generally, the only thing dogs that are fed home prepared diets tend to lack seriously, is minerals in the right proportions, and sometimes there's a complete lack of some important ones. Thankfully dogs are really tolerant of deficiencies - for instance, if your dog is not breeding or performing, you may only see zinc deficiency in minor skin issues and possibly an immune disorder down the road. AND - if you throw in "people food" that is enriched like pasta or dairy products, smaller, less active dogs take full advantage of those - dogs are not called "opportunistic feeders" for nothing. That's what I meant about dogs that are adapted to live on "companion dog" diets. They can get almost everything from fresh meat.

    Anyway, I didn't intend to go into that. My point was actually that other than those few minerals, dogs have very low requirements for things like vitamin C, A, etc - and a variety of meats will offer everything they need. The "prey modelers" are right about that. The only vitamin that sometimes can be lacking is E and most people now supplement E with their OFA supplements. 

    So for the low-cal requirement dogs in my household, I'm all set with very, very simple diets. I don't cook the meats (no oven required), and I steam the fruits and veggies. I like to include skin (apple skin is marvelous for digestion), and if I don't process it I see it come out the other end intact, so I'm assuming it isn't being processed. Also, I use jicama, which no amount of cooking will turn mushy - but processing it turns it into prebiotic mush. I have a wide mouthed 16 cup processor (the top comes off and you just set stuff down in it) and don't do more than cut things like apples in half - which I do before cooking anyway. I don't have a dishwasher but I am more than happy to wash the four parts (bowl, blade, lid, pusher) in return for the hours that thing saves me. I had only a two cup processor before, if you can imagine, and it took two hours to do everyone's food. Stick out tongue

    For the high-cal dogs, I'm usually short a couple of thousand kcals for the week once I've figured up the meat, organ, and raw meaty bones, plus a sweet potato (for extra A and fiber) and the same herb, fruit and veggie recipe the low cal dogs get. I don't want to make up two to four thousand kcals with more meat, as that will shoot up phosphorus and calcium levels, plus overload a few other minerals depending on the meat used.

    There is also the question of how much the dog can physically eat. I could make up the difference with potatoes, but they aren't really very calorie dense - it would take about ten mediumish potatoes to provide two thousand more calories. They are already eating half a potato a day - that would mean they'd have to eat almost two a day. If I used sweet potatoes, they wouldn't be able to do it - too filling. If I used white, I'd go way over on potassium levels, although it's not a tragedy if it were absolutely necessary.

    Grain is the answer for dogs that can tolerate it. Ted gets oatmeal, as did Gus when he worked regularly. Besides being calorie dense, it seems to be good for their digestion. And it's traditional Wink Lynn and Lu get rice. Cord gets about half rice and half cornmeal. Grains run around 250 kcals per dry cup (slightly less than 225 grams).

    Because I jiggle stuff around and experiment on "paper," I know the amount of protein I'm providing for them is within the guidelines set by the NRC. So there is no question in my mind whether its "okay" that Ted eats a couple pounds of meat and bones a day, or whether the fact that Zhi's diet is almost all raw meat will have an impact on her kidneys some day.

    It all sounds complicated but it's really not. I often hear - "We don't balance our food" - but we do. Our moms told us, our government still tells us, eat x-y-z and that's a balanced diet. Plus, in the old days kids had terrible trouble with deficiencies until the FDA started requiring certain foods to be enriched.

    You never think about iodine, like I do, for my dogs' diets, because every time you reach for the table salt you get more than your daily requirement. You don't have to worry about any of the B's or zinc or E or selenium, if you eat grain products, or D if you use dairy products, or C if you drink just about any commercial product out there. You'll get enough to keep body and soul together, anyway, though there's a lot of controversy about whether that's enough these days. Even baby products are enriched with calcium and DHA now.

    On the other hand, I figure it out once and its done. Then I just follow the recipe. As I do it, I get to remembering that such and such provides this, and that provides that, so that over time I've built a library in my head. AFter time it becomes as simple as feeding my kids - simpler, because my kids keep changing what they like! What's up with that, anyway? Tongue Tied

    • Gold Top Dog

     Hmmm...Becca, you put a new spin on things for me.  I've been going by percentages for the most part.  I think I need to rethink things if I want to add in grains and such.  Right now their diet is All meat.  Now I'll have to figure out what the minimum is for protien is.  Er...unless you wanna just tell me...hehe...Crusher is 75 lbs mod active...Onyx is 40 lbs slightly higher activity...

    Not that I think I'd really go with the minimum.  But I definitely don't wanna fall below that mark.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    If you want to work with more than meat, you can get a rundown of the major NRC recommendations via Monica Segal's book Optimum Nutrition. It's well worth it as it also gives some tips on mixing and matching diets and addressing specific needs.

    When you work with all meat, you don't have to worry as much about minimums unless you do something like only feed chicken (which doesn't have anywhere approaching enough minerals no matter how much you feed). But as you know it's expensive and you do run into providing huge overages of some nutrients. I was pretty freaked out about that when I first discovered it but I feel better about that now that I've done a bit more nosing around. Dogs can handle it, fine, as long as we don't ask too much of them. Wink