confused about large breed puppy food vs. ALS foods

 I personally feed an ALS food to all my dogs, including our puppy foster who is 4.5mo.  All dogs are medium to small, but I'd likely due the exact same thing unless the dog was a pup of a giant breed (i.e. over 80-100lbs as an adult), and maybe even then.  The key with larger dogs is to control growth at a good pace vs. allowing them to grow too fast, so lower protein is likely ok, if not ideal.

See, this is not an easy one to answer.  When I fed Innova, I used the ALS for everyone, but then I started having concerns the more I learned about the calcium/phosperous ratio, which I believe is more important that the protein level.   I guess I'd be more inclined to feed a large breed puppy food until the pup is done growing just to be on the safe side.

I know in the food I feed, the large breed puppy AND adult have higher levels of glucocimin and chondrotin, and I'm sure I mangled the spelling of both......For the MOST part, my guys get the large breed food, but I do change up the protein source now and then to fish or lamb just for some variety.

well, after they invented dog kibble in the late 50's they then went on to realize they could get more shelf space in the store, thus more sales of THEIR brand, if they produced all sorts of variants on the basic kibble. Puppies are growing, so it was thought they needed more calories, more protein, more calcium, more fat, so they made "puppy food". Then they realized that the rich puppy food was causing all kinds of unpleasant side effects in the giant breeds by causing them to grow too fast. So after some putzing around they realized that giant breeds need their calcium and calorie intake restricted during the growth period. Thus the invention of large breed puppy food.

so bottom line: do not feed "regular" puppy food to large/giant breed puppies. Beyond that simple rule you can feed whatever you want to your dogs, assuming they do ok on it.

My understanding is that for a large breed puppy, a good ALS food is actually better than a puppy food (unless the puppy food is specifically for large breeds, but honestly I feel like puppy formulas are just another way to make money).

Nikon has always eaten an ALS food, and his breeder has never used a puppy food.  They get a little goats milk and softer food while weaning but then they get either EVO, Fromm, or Nature's Variety Prairie (and I think use NV Instinct or EVO canned if they need a powdered de-wormer).  As far as I know, none of her dogs have or have had allergies or any issues related to their food.

I would never feed EVO to a large breed pup.

And yes, many of the food companies do come up with all kinds of silly ways to increase their shelf space.  RC has a food for every breed under the sun, but if you read the ingredients, gee, they are all the same.  So there are some very valid points in MP's statements.

I guess I've just become less comfortable with dog food in general, and I prefer to stick with the more specific formulas, provided that there is something different and it's not just the same kibble with a different label.

You are right Glenda, I'm pretty sure all the pups get Nature's Variety and the adults get EVO.  Nikon was on NV when I got him and I used that until it was gone, then switched him to a California Natural ALS.

glenmar

RC has a food for every breed under the sun, but if you read the ingredients, gee, they are all the same. 

   The nutrient profiles are different; for example, the formula for Labs has more protein and less fat than the formula for German Shepherds. Jessie has done better on one of their prescription foods than any other food she's been on; it's for atopic dogs and addresses their need for a food with very high omega 3's , extra b vitamins and higher amounts of zinc. It also has aloe vera and curcumin. I know that's not the same as using a non prescription food but one of their formulas sold at PetsMart has really helped one of our cats. For years we couldn't figure out why he chewed off all his belly hair, sometimes to the point of causing sores. The vet had checked him for fungal infections and mites; he took Clavamox to see if it was a bacterial infection but that didn't help and we also tried a special food for cats with food allergies. A few months ago I decided to try a Royal Canin food called Hair and Skin 33 because it had some of the same ingredients as the Rx food Jessie was getting and all his hair grew back in.

Protein levels are not important when picking out a large breed dog food, it is calcium and phosphorus that need to be looked at.  Large breed puppy foods are good, as are some ALS foods- but not all!  Canidae ALS, for example, is VERY high in calcium and I would not feed it to a large breed dog.  Same with Merrick Adult ALS formulas, Timberwolf, Innova, Solid Gold...

I would find a food on this chart that has about 300 mg Calcium per 100 kcals and about 400 kcals per cup: http://members.cox.net/starsen/CALCIUMDRY.html

300 mg Ca/100kcals  is the recommended level of calcium per NRC for growth.  It is hard to find foods with these levels because the cheaper high ash chicken meals bring calcium levels up considerably, so the only foods with nice moderate calcium levels are going to be either expensive foods that use low ash meals, OR foods that don't use a lot of meat in them to begin with.

I had a bad experience with puppy food with my large breed.  Back in 1999, Buddy was on puppy food until he turned 7 months old.  At that time, he started favoring his shoulder.  Long story short, he grew too fast, and developed bone spurs.  He was in a lot of pain and it required surgery to fix the problem.

Now, any puppies that come in to my house eats what everybody else eats. 

Protein levels are not important when picking out a large breed dog food, it is calcium and phosphorus that need to be looked at. 

good point. There are some so-called "large breed puppy foods" that don't contain enough calcium, and there are many ALS foods that have too much calcium in them for growing puppies. Read the labels carefully.

ultimately, what are the proper ratios of calcium and phosphorus for a Large breed pup?