Toning down a dog in the ring?

JB I went ahead and moved this to Training: Obedience & Conformation...as it fits in perfectly here. We have a couple members with Herding breeds that show that can hopefully give some insight. With the hounds it's more a question of "will they be awake enough in the ring" LOL.

rwbeagles

JB I went ahead and moved this to Training: Obedience & Conformation...as it fits in perfectly here. We have a couple members with Herding breeds that show that can hopefully give some insight. With the hounds it's more a question of "will they be awake enough in the ring" LOL.

Thanks......

Its an issue of having a lot of drive, being a hard headed ACD and a lot of stuff going on. I can walk him through the crowd fine, we can shop at the vendors fine, etc. Its standing in the ring and waiting at ring side when he gets "busy". He also tends to want to turn to the judge when they go over him. He does better at ignoring men judges than women judges. He really likes women. Its not a case of me not working with the dog. I have. A lot. I have taken him to my vet and repeatedly had the techs go over him. I really think its a case of him getting excited because of all the activity.

First thank your Stars you want to calm him in the ring rather than bring him up, it is soooo much harder to make a dog happy in the ring than to work on bringing focus to one. Having only one dog to work with right now will be your best news.  Here is what we have done for nearly 20 years with happy happy ring dogs...

Enter EVERY match you can find, it is cheaper than a regular ring and since they happen at the end of the day the dog is slightly more in line. I enter the rings too, but matches can add 1-3 more rings at a big show so I use the heck out of them.

Take him down earlier and see if it calms him a bit.... It is a crap shoot either earlier works for you or barely on time. You have to feel him out for what works the best.

Away from conformation work the Watch me command both verbally and then with a hand signal. I like to have the dog watch my face and this bait, so I bring it from my pocket to my mouth and I make him make eye contact with me.

Do not feed him that morning, he will be be more inclined to watch his bait.  work with him every where. stop by the vets and sit in the lobby, use your bait and while you talk to others demand his attention.  Tell him Watch me, bring the bait to your mouth ( not in it) and hold it there, if he begins to break repeat the comand as soon as he gives the correct attention reward him I like teeny tiny treats, not enough to fill up on but high motivating for sure!

Work him on another paying attention drill, long lead on the street and with out giving any command but walk or work, beging walking... if he drags behind pop the lead , if he charges turn suddenly with out warning and allow the lead to make the correction.  slow waaaaay down and when he is at your side offer praise , when he drifts speed up very quickly, changing directions,  in turning when he is next to you do not make every turn away from him make some right into him , bumping him with your legs and feet so he must scramble out of the way.  They learn this is a game by your enthusiastic praise when he is in the right place.  when in the wrong place use no sentences, but body and sometimes a Catch Up ! or  a Hey Hey when abruptly turning....He learns without paying attention he finds a correction, being in the right place is a totall feel good.  The corrections can never be rough or hard, simple pop pops or bumps.

When sitting at the house put him through the watch me game... even when company is there... if he drifts offer the treat to someone else. I will have other dogs in the room when I work my youngsters and believe me they hate losing a treat to an older dog. That dog knows the drill and they look for their chance.

ACDs are easy to focus IF you make it a joyful fun thing.  When it becomes nothing but correction, stop or you can sour them on the game.

Once he focuses on the treat near your mouth surprize him by extending your arm or rasing it really high, when he follows he gets the treat thrown. Can he catch??? If not use pop corn or cheese puffs they float a bit allowing even a very young dog to try to catch they may not have anything from the ground. it is your hand or in the air only...

Don't worry about anyone who tries to make you hush in the ring. Talking quietly to your dog is perfectly acceptable. People who grump often do so because they are throwing a monkey wrench into your handling. Keep it low, happy and at your dog only.

When waiting in line keep the game going... if he acts as if he is getting bored IGNORE HIM.  No treats, no game he will quickly forget the others in wanting your attention back. I can work my girls when they get bored easily by ignoring them and talking to another handler or their dogs. Drives them Nuts!! When I know I have the focus I want again I resume the game.

Keep all of us updated, I am currently working a young boy in this game right now.  We have the Big 4 day Atlanta show coming up.

Bonita of Bwana

Bonita of Bwana

First thank your Stars you want to calm him in the ring rather than bring him up, it is soooo much harder to make a dog happy in the ring than to work on bringing focus to one. Having only one dog to work with right now will be your best news.  Here is what we have done for nearly 20 years with happy happy ring dogs...

Enter EVERY match you can find, it is cheaper than a regular ring and since they happen at the end of the day the dog is slightly more in line. I enter the rings too, but matches can add 1-3 more rings at a big show so I use the heck out of them.

Take him down earlier and see if it calms him a bit.... It is a crap shoot either earlier works for you or barely on time. You have to feel him out for what works the best.

Away from conformation work the Watch me command both verbally and then with a hand signal. I like to have the dog watch my face and this bait, so I bring it from my pocket to my mouth and I make him make eye contact with me.

Do not feed him that morning, he will be be more inclined to watch his bait.  work with him every where. stop by the vets and sit in the lobby, use your bait and while you talk to others demand his attention.  Tell him Watch me, bring the bait to your mouth ( not in it) and hold it there, if he begins to break repeat the comand as soon as he gives the correct attention reward him I like teeny tiny treats, not enough to fill up on but high motivating for sure!

Work him on another paying attention drill, long lead on the street and with out giving any command but walk or work, beging walking... if he drags behind pop the lead , if he charges turn suddenly with out warning and allow the lead to make the correction.  slow waaaaay down and when he is at your side offer praise , when he drifts speed up very quickly, changing directions,  in turning when he is next to you do not make every turn away from him make some right into him , bumping him with your legs and feet so he must scramble out of the way.  They learn this is a game by your enthusiastic praise when he is in the right place.  when in the wrong place use no sentences, but body and sometimes a Catch Up ! or  a Hey Hey when abruptly turning....He learns without paying attention he finds a correction, being in the right place is a totall feel good.  The corrections can never be rough or hard, simple pop pops or bumps.

When sitting at the house put him through the watch me game... even when company is there... if he drifts offer the treat to someone else. I will have other dogs in the room when I work my youngsters and believe me they hate losing a treat to an older dog. That dog knows the drill and they look for their chance.

ACDs are easy to focus IF you make it a joyful fun thing.  When it becomes nothing but correction, stop or you can sour them on the game.

Once he focuses on the treat near your mouth surprize him by extending your arm or rasing it really high, when he follows he gets the treat thrown. Can he catch??? If not use pop corn or cheese puffs they float a bit allowing even a very young dog to try to catch they may not have anything from the ground. it is your hand or in the air only...

Don't worry about anyone who tries to make you hush in the ring. Talking quietly to your dog is perfectly acceptable. People who grump often do so because they are throwing a monkey wrench into your handling. Keep it low, happy and at your dog only.

When waiting in line keep the game going... if he acts as if he is getting bored IGNORE HIM.  No treats, no game he will quickly forget the others in wanting your attention back. I can work my girls when they get bored easily by ignoring them and talking to another handler or their dogs. Drives them Nuts!! When I know I have the focus I want again I resume the game.

Keep all of us updated, I am currently working a young boy in this game right now.  We have the Big 4 day Atlanta show coming up.

Bonita of Bwana

 

 

Thanks Bonita. Some good advice there. I kind of see in your suggestions some things I am doing wrong with him. When he moves he moves well (you should see this dog gait) But I definately don't think I am holding his focus well enough. When we first go in the ring, I have him pretty well focused on me. I can stop him right where I want him and work away from him. He self stacks and is stunning.  In thinking about it, I get into trouble when we are waiting in line for the judge to go over him. He wants to look around, spin around and look at the dog behind him, look at the dog in front of him, etc. By the time he gets to the judge he is ansy, and squirmy. I took him out as soon as he was 6 months old. He did not do much the first few times out. I think a lot of judges are more forgiving of puppies. But now he has been out a bunch and is in open dog. The judges are less forgiving. And I have to do better with him. I am in no way trying to lay this on the dog. Its all on me. He is a lot of dog to handle (even the breeder who has a zillion hom bred champions says he is, she also says his sire gave her fits) His energy is off the charts and so is his drive. Which is exactly what I wanted. The breeder has helped a BUNCH but I still think I am missing a piece of the puzzle. I think you may have hit that piece right on the head. I am losing his focus. At times I have probably lost it before we get in the ring. Other times I lose it before the judge goes over him.

I am going to work on some of your suggestions this week and I will let you know. We have four point majors next Saturday and Sunday in Brooksville. Then I am showing the following friday again in brooksville, three point major. A five point major on Saturday and a regional specialty the last Sunday on the brooksville circuit. 44 ACDS in that one.

I don't show conformation, but I've had to deal with Honor's over-excitement in the Rally ring.  Through trial and error (BIG error), I've found that two things work really well for gaining her attention.  The first is to RUN her silly right before we go in the ring.  About 5 minutes before we're due in, I put her on a long line, and run like crazy with her.  Throwing toys, playing tug, doing chase games, etc.  It seems to help her blow off the excess-excess energy that wipes her focus in the ring.  (Otherwise she is COMPLETELY distracted...looking around like "Hey Judge! Wooowooo!...LOOK!  There's a dog by the gate!...etc etc).  

Once we reach the gate to go in, I begin focus games like "Watch Me" which is what Bonita suggested.  I do the same thing.  If she focuses on my face, she gets treats.  I also might ask her for small, simple exercises (like sits, stands, etc).  I also reserve her most beloved, be-all-end-all treat JUST for the ring.  Honor loves grilled chicken, and will sell her soul to have some.  And the fact that she only gets it when we're performing means she works all the more harder for it.  

Honor, too, gets bored quickly (which is why our first rally trial run ever was a DISASTER, lol).  I've had to be inventive with the Watch Me games, whether it be tossing the treat (like Bonita suggested), or practicing holding the treat in different places while requiring focus (like, holding the treat out to the side, but waiting for attention on your face).  Granted, in Rally, we're only in the ring for 2 minutes, but we usually have a huge wait before the run, and I have to get her zoomies out and gain her focus quickly. 

Best of luck, he sounds like a wonderful dog! 

I've known dogs that did best if they were actually road worked from a bike for 20 minutes before going in the ring.

One thought, are you trying to make him stand still and bait for the entire time he is waiting in line? If so, most dogs will end up getting antsy after a while. I purposely don't do that, and my dogs show better for it. Especially in a large class.

The first step is to watch the judge in a prior class or breed, hopefully with several dogs in the ring if you will be showing with other dogs too. Watch specifically to see if and when he looks down the line of dogs. Some judges make a point of never looking at the other dogs while he is doing his individuals. Some will glance down the line after each dog does his go around. They all pretty much have a pattern. The ONLY time your dog needs to be stacked and baiting is when the judge is going to be looking your way. The rest of the time, let your dog relax or maybe put him in a sit stay. Don't let him start playing with the dogs around him, but let him just chill out. Flashes of brilliance just when the judge is going to be looking is my goal! And a dog who has been stacked for too long is always going to look kind of flat.

If you can't watch prior judging, watch as he judges the first dog in class. Have your dog stacked and ready as that dog goes around the ring. If the judges glances down the line, you will know to have your dog ready at the go around of every dog. If not, just relax. Otherwise, you will always have your dog stacked if they are the last dog or two in line and the dog being examined is coming around to the end of the line. Then you will be in the judge's frame of view. Also have your dog stacked when the dog immediately in front of you is about to be looked at. The first look the judge takes will be from a distance and your dog will be seen.

If you watch the professional handlers in the group ring, they usually don't stack their dogs unless they are at the end of the line or the front. They will even stand between their dog and the judge so they don't have to worry about it. Or they tuck their dog behind the others.

Make sure the ring is always fun for him!  Bonita has lots of really good ideas, and I always played catch with my ACDs. They were all taught to play the catch game, and to free stack. I would make a game out of it, bending a knee towards them to make them step back, leaning left or right to make them move a foot, then tossing or giving them a bite of bait. My Nellie was so focused on me that the judges could go over her without me ever having to set her up.

I suspect that your behaviour changes at certain times in the ring. Do you start to get tense when you're stacking him? Do you all of a sudden make the collar tight, or take hold of his muzzel to keep his head straight? I haven't been in the conformation ring for a lot of years, but ACDs used to be shown on a loose lead, and free stacked. We were facing our dogs when the judge went over them, just reaching down to show the bite, and hold their head steady.

Try to keep yourself relaxed and happy, and give him a command to know what not to do. An "Oh quit!" noise that is different from a "bad boy". Conformation is fun! It is one person's opinion on that day. Don't make your dog have a bad experience, tomorrow will be a whole new show. When you make it to the group ring, use that time to play and have a good time! Best of luck to you, It sounds like you have a boy that can really go places!!

Thanks to all that gave advice. We did MUCH better this week. Still have some work to do but we took Best of Winners for a four point major today in Brooksville.

 how old is he?  I have an 18 month old very high drive beauceron bitch that acted very similar when i first started showing her..she actually did fine in stacking and such, but when we'd go around the ring, especially in group when there was tons of people watching she wouild go crazy bouncing and biting at my suit sleeve!  the more people clapped the more excited she got! LOL.  She finally calmed down, but it took about 6 months of showing her for her to settle....she just loved the attention so much!

 know its not much help...but i just had to comment i know how you feel!

I have a similar problem, an aireborne malinois.  What has worked for us is to get there as early as possible (like 6:00 for the first classes of the day).  We walk every where. 

I have also taught her tricks to do.  We use back up alot and restack; then catch a treat.  We circle right and circle left in front of me. We use touch and I am going to teach a bow (also stretches so she is nice and relaxed before gaiting). 

I do puppy push ups (rapid sit, down, stand in any order).  I dont think a that a sit and a down in the ring in that case is a big deal.  I only use that in large group situations (like going for BOB at a regional or something. 

I dont like to teach eye contact in a young dog because it can result in them looking at you when moving.  When stacked if you are in just the wrong spot, the silhouette can be ruinded.  The neck just disappears.  So I teach them a "look" which means focus on my fingers.  Then if you put a bit of pressure upward on the collar, place the hand high then take it low, you get the beginning of a lovely arched neck from a free bait (in the future as you slowly fade the collar cue).

Why was he excused?

  I would get the the show early, walk him around and hang out ringside with him well before you have to go in. That usually gets boring after awhile even for wild dogs. Also it was mentioned to tecah him tricks and that is good advice - that can help you keep and regain his attention and give him something active to do.

 Congrats on the major!