Suppliments to help with coat?

Meat and bone meal is prepared from the wastes materials associated with slaughtering operations (carcass trimmings, condemned carcasses, condemned livers, inedible offal (lungs) and bones) and also from the rendering of dead animals. There can be a wide variation between plants and batches in what goes into the meat and bone meal that is being prepared.

Note: Condemned Carcaesses, Condemned livers, inedible offal (lungs) and bones) and also from the rendering of dead animals. This includes Euthanized amimals.

Caution: 

Proper heat treatment is required to control the spread of disease. Salmonella and BSE links. Many of the developed countries of the world has restricted the feeding of meat and bone meal and some only allow meat and bone meal derived from monogastric animals to be fed to ruminant animals and vice versa, like the USA and some of the Western European Countries. This is due to Mad Cow or BSE..

Source:  

Slaughterhouse wastes and dead animals are used to prepare meat and bone meal. Slaughterhouse wastes consist of portions of animals that are not suitable for human consumption; normally hair, hooves and blood are not included. After animals have died their carcasses can be rendered to destroy disease organisms and made also into meat and bone meal. 

I pefer to stay away from dog food or treats made with meat meal due to the dangers, if it has the word meal I stay away from it... You will spend a little more for human grade ingredients but in the long run the risks are removed.

This info was supplied when I goggled Meat Meal...

Wait.  MEAT meal is simply concentrated meat.  Chicken, for example, is 70% water.  Take out the water and bones and then concentrate into chicken meal and you have a MUCH higher protein amount than you would with an equal amount of chicken.

As for bonemeal, well, one can walk into any store and buy bone meal meant for humans, so I don't think it's terribly likely that that this is coming from 4D animals.

Most of the higher quality foods, WILL have a named meat meal, AND are 100% human grade ingredients.  In fact, I can't think of a single super premium that doesn't use a named meat meal.

Even the dreaded byproduct isn't BAD for dogs, it just isn't as easily digested.  By defination, by product is exclusive of blood, bones, skin and feathers.  While I personally won't buy a product with by product, it isn't a horrible ingredient.  But, it is not human grade either.

Oh, and back to my question.....is it the 6's that promote inflammation or the 3's?

Meat Meal is not concentrated meat, that is what you call Crude Protein, Meat Meal is rendered product from human food supply, 4D Animals, spoiled meats etc... It is boiled to 220% to kill all bateria and at the same time removing all nutitional value. It is then mixed in with corn, wheat, barley and anyother crop close to the manufacture of pet food to make what we consider nutritional food for our pets.

As for Chicken Meal this is all the left over reminants from processing fryers and the same process is performed. Boil to 220 degrees kill all bateria and remove all nutritional value and blend with fillers to make pet food...

Bone Meal for Humans is produced from clean un-rendered bones not the same as product allowed in pet food, bone meal from product for pet food is not processed the same as human grade bone meal. They do not regulate what product can be used in pet food. Bone meal, meat meal, chicken meal is only used to meet the minumum requirements by AFFCO for protein in pet food, this is called crude protien... None of which is human grade.

  Health risks

In the 1990s, bone meal was identified as a vector for bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE, or "mad cow disease";) among livestock. It is believed by some that bone meal produced in the 1970s from the corpses of sheep bearing scrapie caused BSE in cattle when it was fed to them, but the pathogen very rarely crosses species, so it is more likely to have spread from cow bone meal. Others believe that organophosphates may have triggered the bovine form of the disease.

If the pet food is labeled with meat meal, bone meal, chicken meal or any meal it is not human grade unless it is listed on the label. (which it isn't)

Very few products for our loved ones are made from human grade ingredients, read labels...

I just want to make sure you are not being mislead...

 lulu, what are your references? You are posting some very inflammatory statements without citations to back them up.

Here's something interesting to read - FDA-published article on pet food ingredients

Here are the AAFCO definitions of dog food ingredients: http://www.braypets.com/FRR/aafcodef.htm (I know it's not a .gov or anything, but you find the exact same list published on many other websites)

From that:

• Meat and Bone Meal - the rendered product from mammal tissues, including bone, exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents, except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.
• Meat By-Products - the non rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hooves.

 Here's some info on BSE or "mad cow disease" (http://www.umm.edu/features/madcow.htm)

In terms of how humans get it, is it just a matter of eating the meat of an infected cow?

For variant CJD, the answer is yes. There's no absolute proof, but it's assumed that the disease in humans was passed from cows by the eating of contaminated beef from a cow with BSE. Now whether the prion is actually in the beef itself or the prion contaminated the beef from nearby nervous tissue is unknown. But it has been verified that if one gram of infected cow brain is consumed by another cow, transmission will occur.

So in other words, regular old beef meat is just as high-risk for BSE as "beef meal."

Personally, I find chicken, beef, or fish meal to be highly desirable in the food I'm choosing for my dog. He does well on high-protein kibbles, so I would much rather see meal than filler grains. The problem for me comes when it's indiscriminate "meal meal" (as in, could come from any meat source, and why isn't the source identified?) as opposed to a specified animal or sub-species (like menhaden fish meal, or salmon meal, or duck meal, or...).

Agreed Cita.  Just because something is on the internet doesn't mean that its gospel.

I agree also on the unnamed meat meal source.....same goes for "poultry" or "animal" fat.  Poultry fat could be anything from chicken, turkey, duck, or sparrow.  I'd like to know.  And gosh, we have some dogs on the forum who don't tolerate chicken.  So they likely can't buy those "poultry fat" foods simply because they NEED to know the source of every ingredient.  And, by using generic terms, yeah, they can vary the fat or meat from batch to batch and that wrecks havoc on consistency. 

Lulu, when I first made the step up from the vet recommended Purina foods, I had NO clue what meal was.  I too thought that it was a bad thing, and after a couple hours in a pet store readng labels, with no employee able to give me any clue what meal was, I came home with a decent food, but one that was grossly overpriced.  The reason?  I was trying to avoid meal.  it took me ONE post on this forum to learn just how wrong that idea was.

I'm afraid that your argument doesn't make much sense.  You say that you would rather buy higher priced foods with human grade ingredients, yet all or most of those higher quality foods include a named meat meal.  Might I ask what it is that you are feeding that does NOT contain a named meat meal.

Claims such as this, that truly excellent quality ingredients, are rendered garbage, is the reason so many dogs are still eating Doggie Bag and other poor quality foods.

From the Natura website:

Chicken meal is considered to be the single best source of protein in commercial pet foods. Natura uses high-quality, low ash chicken meal extensively. This ingredient is very digestible, very palatable, and very expensive.

From the Blue Buffalo website:

Chicken Meal
Chicken meal is a highly digestible protein source produced by cooking chicken at high temperatures, extracting the fat and drying the meat residue. It is a meat protein, providing essential amino acids and fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals for muscle development and energy. It is naturally stabilized with mixed tocopherols and rosemary to preserve freshness.

Do you need more?

Lulu Pixie, your heart is in the right place, but your facts are a bit scrambled.  You are assigning the wrong product to the characteristics you are describing.  Some dog foods DO use what you describe, but they are not the ones favored here, which use a named meat meal.

Contrary to what many people believe, meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) are not inferior to whole, fresh meats. Meals consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the proper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. They have had most of the moisture removed, but meats in their original, "wet" form still contain up to 75% water. Once the food reaches its final moisture content of about 9-12%, the meat will have shrunk to sometimes as little as 1/4 of the original amount, while the already dehydrated meal form remains the same and you get more concentrated protein per pound of finished product. This means that in the worst case you are left with only 4 ounces of actual meat content per pound of fresh meat included in a dry kibble, many of which contain less than one pound of meat per 2-3 pounds of grain to begin with. Preferably a food contains quality meat meal as well as some fresh meat.

This is what you are thinking of - it's confusing because we ARE saying "meat meal" here but that's shorthand for "named meat meal from sources approved 100% for human consumption" (PRE-food chain, not POST-processing).

AAFCO: The rendered product from mammal tissues, with or without bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

The animal parts used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters and so on. It can also include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed (spoiled) tissue.

For further reading:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=labelinfo101 And follow the links to the side for more reading.

Bravo Brookcove!  VERY well put.

Brookcove,

I appreciate the last link that you referenced from the dogfoodproject, this does cover information on the subjects we were both touching on. My information posted is from years of trying to find a product with out renderned products to feed my girls. The last paragraph from AAFCO is the facts about the dog food industry, and the statement on the meat meal that there is human grade or pre-food chain is correct,  but the dog food industry uses post-processing which is not from human food grade products unless it is listed as human grade. If you google meat meal or bone meal you will find the source of these products and will concur with my statements. If you go to a dog food websites you will read many statements that have been posted by many others on this forum. I feel that most pet food on the market is safe for consumption and have the nutrients needed to keep our pets functioning on a daily basis but the long term effects is what I am more concidered about.  This all started with a dog treat I found that took care of my dogs dry skin problem and I was so happy to find a product that was human grade. I then proceeded to vent my frustration...

 I which you all happy hunting while shopping for nutritional products for your loved ones...

 Thank you all for your input...

I will not argue that many of the dog food companies do use crap ingredients.  However, the super premium companies, those started EXCLUSIVELY to improve animal nutrition do not.

Again, I would ask, what food you use that is so superior to all the rest?  Perhaps some of us might want to look at that food.

I have not found a dog food with all human grade ingredients that I can afford. I actually purchase the Kirkland Brand beacuse the first ingredient is Chicken. the treat that i found is on Costco.com. It is called Doggy Dollars, it is all natural made from human grade ingredients. Everything on the label is human grade. It is high in fat derived from the meat and not oils, since I have been feeding this to LULU her hair is growing back and her coat is shinny. Both my girls love them, I bring the jar out and they go crazy... I leave it on the counter and they just stare at it, so I have to keep it in the pantry.

 Thank you,

Isn't the Kirkland made by Diamond?  They've had so darned many issues in the past few years, that I just can't trust that company.  However, I know that a lot of people do like that food.

In my neck of the woods Innova, now in just a 30 lb bag is $65, while Blue is right around $40 for 30 lbs.  Both are human grade ingredients.  It's a pretty obvious choice for me, but with 6 german shepherds, I've got to feed something I can actually afford to feed, that is still excellent quality.

The ingredients that I personally avoid are corn, wheat, soy, grain glutens or fragments and by product.

Agreed, I am not sure who makes Kirkland brand, it is in my budget...

Check out the treat I found for my girls....

It is a great product which has cured the issues I was having with dry skin with my girls, they now have silky coats...

 http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11324932&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US

all my freinds have ordered it and thier dogs love them!

Often if you look at the cost per serving, vs the cost per bag you get a better idea of the actual cost of the food.

My crew only eats kibble in the morning, and a 30 lb bag lasts 6 gsd's 8 days.  They get between 2-2.5 cups depending on the dog and his size.  It costs me roughly 90 cents per day to feed each dog.  The kcals are the important information, aside from the ingredients, and the higher the kcals, the less you need to feed.

I've tried a variety of the super premiums and tend to stick with what really works well for my guys.  Canidae is a good food, not quite on par with Innova and Blue, but good, and a whole lot cheaper....usually under $30 for a 40 lb bag.  And made by a company that I trust. But, when I do the math, it actually costs me MORE to feed Canidae because I have to feed so much more.  Granted, not a whole lot more, but with this many mouths to feed, I too have to watch the budge.