Food for the working puppy

You will have to go by the needs of your pup when she arrives.  She'll tell you more than any of us!  :)  But, you can really plan on starting on any "normal" food.  Puppies are puppies whether they will be sled dogs when they grow up, or couch potatoes.  The most important thing to consider in choosing a diet is not what the pup will do, but rather how big the pup will be.

Around five months old, some working bred dogs start dividing into "hard keeper" and "easy keeper" groups.  Again, you can't predict now, or do anything now, to prevent this or "bump" your dog one way or another.  You can only watch her condition and find the foods that keep her in the best sahep for her age.  

Susan Clothier I believe, still recommends that pups intended for perfromance training, be kept on the light side of the condition scale through maturity.

I strongly recommend now using a high quality fish oil supplement no matter what you feed.  DHA is vitally important for brains that will be taxed as they mature.  I kept both Ted and Lynn on colostrum too and really like what it's done for them.

Have fun! 

 Thanks! Can I get the fish oil supp at a health food store?? I'm making a list for payday. Lol.

 I actually buy my fish oil (Grizzly Salmon Oil) online. That stuff is amazing.

 I'm going to try the Nordic kids supplement that Becca is feeding to Zhi, but I feed all sorts of random oils. I just buy whatever, and have had good results, so far. Nothing amazing, but it makes a difference.

You don't need a puppy food for a PRT. Emma never ate puppy food, and she grew forever, LOL.

 So I can start her right off the bat on Maze's food? That would be helpful

you probably can feed her Maze's food; what does she eat? dogs don't really need puppy food but there are a few foods made for adults that aren't terribly good for puppies.

 Maze eats California Natural, right? That, with some extra meats added, would be a fine food to feed a puppy. JRT tend to be sensitive, anyways, so nothing at ALL wrong with a simple food. Ena eats the California Natural canned food, and loves it. You can throw in sardines, mackeral, anything like that.

Excellent post, as usual, Becca. Why do you have to be so danged smart?

Anyway. If necessary, there are working dog formulas for adult working dogs. And a puppy will probably do fine on a food for puppies, depending on age, breed, and activity. I've never tried Nutro's High Energy and now, frankly, I'm not sure about their formulas. Eagle Pack Power has proven to be a winner, literally. A team in the Iditarod was fed it and supped with seal meat, though I think the fresh meat was a traditional thing. There are multipliers for working dogs for the kcals required.

http://www.sportsvet.com/Art3.html

But here's a point I would like to make that I learned from the vet who invented Momentum, a food designed for competition sled dogs. As in, I emailed him directly and he answered me directly. I had wondered if I should feed Shadow a food such as his, given his sled dog ancestry and the fact that he has a Sibe metabolism.

Their standard formula is 37 % protein, 23 % fat. And this is for dogs requiring greater than 2,400 kcals per day. Especially considering that Sibes, as a breed, don't eat a lot at one time. So, you have to get the nutrition to fit into the amount that they will eat. Such a food would be too much for Shadow since we are not in competition sledding, covering at least 20 miles a day.  Over nutrition leads to weight gain, sometimes malabsorption, etc.

So, before considering a working dog formula, find out the baseline kcal needs of your dog.

http://www.petdiets.com/calculate/der.asp

http://www.petdiets.com/calculate/food.asp

Then go to the sports vet site and find the multiplier. Agility requires endurance more than sprinting. A dock diver would be a sprinter. A short, finite burst of speed and strength. Agility, which covers a longer course of more challenges requires endurance and focus.

For a puppy, I would think a puppy formula plus a little treat of meat here and there, especially in training, could be good, though that's a ball park shot at it.

Also, remember, especially in the case of sled dogs in competition, the dogs are constantly monitored by a vet who helps adjust their diet. Also, it's not uncommon for working dogs going into off-season to transfer to a lower protein/fat ratio food.

 These are some you might look into

Artemis Power, Precise Endurance there is really a whole world of them out there, these are a just a couple. Corey Proseries Performance is another but it has corn and wheat which some dogs don't have problems with but others do. Blackwood 7000 is their "high stress" formula which is like for working dogs, can't remember the ingredients of that.

ron2

Anyway. If necessary, there are working dog formulas for adult working dogs. And a puppy will probably do fine on a food for puppies, depending on age, breed, and activity. I've never tried Nutro's High Energy and now, frankly, I'm not sure about their formulas. Eagle Pack Power has proven to be a winner, literally. A team in the Iditarod was fed it and supped with seal meat, though I think the fresh meat was a traditional thing. There are multipliers for working dogs for the kcals required.

Another thing about the working/sporting formulas is that sometimes they are the exact same as the puppy formula (like Nutrisource Super Performance and Small/Med Breed Puppy for one, there are several others like this too). Which means you could start off with either one. I guess it is really up to the owner which they want. I've fed Nutro High Energy for years with good results but since I had sick dogs, lots of complaints from others I don't really trust it. I know some friends who still feed it, but it seems risky to me. Ingredient wise I'd chose Nutro over the Eagle Pack but I'd worry about what might not be on the label with Nutro. Not even sure if maybe the Nutro formula has changed now too.

Great post with all the info you provided as usual.

I wanted to note that first, we are still discussing a puppy, rather than a dog that's already working.  One feeds a puppy, no matter what the breed or future career, according to the puppy's current needs.  Feeding performance food now will do nothing for the future - it's just not needed now. 

Working BC breeders typically feed pups a normal all life stages food (Canidae used to be popular before they changed it, many feed Diamond feeds now).  Rations only are bumped up when the condition of the dog reflects it, and many can get by with a "normal" ration, since most food companies have raised protein levels up into the high 20s.

Also, although the subject line says "working" puppy, in reality the activities described fall into the realm of "sport" - even go-to-ground - unless the intention is to train g-t-g and agility for several hours every day.  Again one feeds for the activity one is actually doing, not the activity one intends or may or wishes to do.  It's far better to feed reactively rather than proactively because even slight overcondition is extremely dangerous for the "weekend warrior" dog, resulting in soft tissue injury and early wear and tear on the joints and circulatory system.  Here is an excellent brief discussion of the risk of overfeeding sport dogs - hunting dogs in this case.

 Just as a random note, my dogs fall into the "very active" category for most pet dogs. They're walked on or off lead, depending on the day and the walk, for at least two miles, every day. They go to the grooming shop with me, and spend hours just following me around the shop and the pet supply store. They have obedience and conformation classes, several days a week (2-3 classes, per week, per dog). They have play dates. They swim, and play frisbee or ball, every day (because, honestly, my walking pace? nothing!). They don't have a whole lot of "down" time, aside from cat naps and 6-8 hours while I sleep, by choice....

They eat about like a normal dog. Emma is five, and she eats what the box recomends, in premade raw. She weighs 18 lbs, and eats 4 oz, twice a day. Ena is 9 months, and eats half a cup and half a can of fish and sweet potato dog food a day. Both dogs do get treats and some table scraps, on most days. Table scraps consist of veggies, though. I'm vegan... They do not have ridiculous food needs, for dogs their size. Ena did eat double this much, until just a month and a half ago. I've been tapering her off, because she got too fat. She seems good at the half cup, half can amount. She's around 11 lbs. 

The girls don't do anything like what Becca's dogs do. They are not working dogs, but they are super active pets. No weird needs, aside from food sensitivities. 

brookcove

I wanted to note that first, we are still discussing a puppy, rather than a dog that's already working.  One feeds a puppy, no matter what the breed or future career, according to the puppy's current needs.  Feeding performance food now will do nothing for the future - it's just not needed now. 

Working BC breeders typically feed pups a normal all life stages food (Canidae used to be popular before they changed it, many feed Diamond feeds now).  Rations only are bumped up when the condition of the dog reflects it, and many can get by with a "normal" ration, since most food companies have raised protein levels up into the high 20s.

Also, although the subject line says "working" puppy, in reality the activities described fall into the realm of "sport" - even go-to-ground - unless the intention is to train g-t-g and agility for several hours every day.  Again one feeds for the activity one is actually doing, not the activity one intends or may or wishes to do.  It's far better to feed reactively rather than proactively because even slight overcondition is extremely dangerous for the "weekend warrior" dog, resulting in soft tissue injury and early wear and tear on the joints and circulatory system.  Here is an excellent brief discussion of the risk of overfeeding sport dogs - hunting dogs in this case.

 Good post. A fat dog is not a healthy dog and performance ability suffers. Feeding a pup too much isn't going to help them in the long run, especially not to be healthy, quick, agile, strong, ect. I think it is pretty easy to feed the right amount though. Which is why I never understand how come so many dogs I see are overweight.  If they start to get heavy feed them less and increase activity.

 Feeding a performance feed won't make them overweight in and of itself, over feeding will just as with any food. Many performance foods are the same or very similar to the puppy formula. I don't have overweight dogs (they are lean and muscular) but when feeding kibble almost always feed the performance food, a few of them can get away with something less or not labeled as "performance" but a lot of the higher quality foods have just as much as the working dog foods, again just not labeled that way. I'd say look at the dog and see what they need, what works best for them.

I'm not sure about Goto ground, but rally isn't a very strenuous activity and agility is a sprinting sport that is best trained for a few minutes per day. So calling this dog a "working dog" and feeding it diets intended for dogs who actually work for hours every day is not a good idea.

 Thanks for all the posts! Maze does get Cal. Nat. Herring and Sweet Potato.

My pup will be a sports dog.. I don't know why I posted "working" dog.. Must have been tired.. Lol.As she gets grows, this pup will be highly active. I'm doing classes 2 -3 days a week, plus agility training a certain amount each day.. Basically she's gonna be doing what Maze is doing know as well as Go to ground.  The only times I won't be with the dogs will be 4 hours a day while I'm at work. Otherwise I'll be training/playing with them.

And I was just worried about giving her the best start I can. Thanks again for all the posts