specific 'stay' problem - ideas please

I love this game too, with Rupert. It's HARD to fool a dog, so maybe if you've got someone who can help and hide around the corner from where you're telling him down/stay, so when you walk past you stay and the other person goes off which he can hear and they hide the toys and then you could maybe use a mirror or something and peak at him and as soon as you *think* he's getting restless say "stay" again but keep out of sight? Hah, maybe convince him you're watching all the time even when he thinks you're gone?

Other than that maybe rig up some sort of survelience system in the house with a cheap webcam and if you've got a laptop with a wireless card I could imagine that being pretty useful, so you could see exactly how long it takes for him to start to cheat and what he does right before then cut the down/stay down to slightly less time than that? 'find it' is a fun game, but maybe he's just saying he's bored with that bit. I've found that if every time I hide lots of treats and it takes me a long time Rupert gets more restless, but if I vary it and he never knows what's coming it helps.

boredpuppy08

but maybe he's just saying he's bored with that bit

But thanks for the suggestions!

well it's like a start line stay in agility- the dog doesn't get to play if he breaks his stay. He cheats, game ends.

mudpuppy

He cheats, game ends.

He thinks that when you go out of sight, you've switched to the FIND ME game.  You've got to make it really clear what his job is when he's doing STAY.

Up the ante.  Try to think of something that will make him break his stay while he's in sight.  Make sure you put him in the stay the same way (at first).  Start doing the stay in the easiest possible spot for him, but introduce the distraction.  Introduce it while you are right next to him.  Give him about a breath then make sure you reinforce the STAY and NOT the release.  Ie, it's, "Staaaay, goooood (treat or click/treat), Okay!"

Start increasing time he will stay in the presence of the distraction.  Then increase the difficulty  Think carefully about how you increase - only change one parameter at a time.  Each time you significantly change a parameter,  "reset" all the rest to the least difficult levels.

Have fun! 

 You could also set up a "Stay" just exactly as if youre going to play "find it".  Leave his sight for only a second, come straight back and JACKPOT him for "staying".  Make it a SUPER reward while he is STILL in "stay".  Do this often, upping the ante gradually. 

The BEST stuff is meant to happen while he is in "stay" and the release is meant to be fairly boring by comparison, so that the stay is solid.  In his case, the BEST reward (the fun findit game) is happening on release which is why he is breaking the stay.  Can you think of something he loves MORE than the find it game?  This has to be his reward for staying when he THINKS you are going to play findit - but you come back early and surprise him with this extra super reward before he has chance to break the stay

**IMPORTANT**  It should really be something he can enjoy while maintaining the stay!  A high value food treat would be the obvious choice.

To be completely honest, in the meantime I would use a tether short term JUST for this game and leave the word "stay" out  of it till you have proofed it some more, or you will poison the cue

ETA - This will have the added benefit of changing his perception of the Stay - he will no longer come to expect the findit game and, lacking that anticipation, it will be easier for him to maintain the stay.  You will come to a point where you can put him in a down stay as a prelude to this game.  As MP says.. I think you should make it that if he cheats, the game is over.  It would probably help him if sometimes (intermittently) you go back and reward (that high value one) before starting the game.