How do you punish your dog?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Chuffy

    To the OP - if it's punishment you want, use a rolled up newspaper.  Bash yourself on the head with it and resolve to contain her better in future while working hard on that recall...

    LOL.  That scared me for a split second there.  Until I finished the sentence.

    Wholeheartedly agree that the resolution here is to disallow the potential for unwanted behavior.  If you are in a situation where you cannot correct immediately, you are just asking for failure.  In other words, if she is not on a long line if/when she runs off, you cannot reel her in (form of correction).  

    You might not want to hear this...but she just might not really understand the commands.  The old adage of until the dog recalls 10 times out of 10 applies...you have to start from scratch, because she hasn't "got it" yet.

    Don't be so hard on yourself or your dog...just make sure she is always reachable so she does what you need for her to do everytime you ask.

     

    • Gold Top Dog
    CoBuHe
    The old adage of until the dog recalls 10 times out of 10 applies...you have to start from scratch, because she hasn't "got it" yet. 
    It's always the 11th time that the dog runs off ;) LOL...I always used the rule of 7's ~ the dog needs to be able to do it in 7 different places before it's reliable.
    • Gold Top Dog

    I don't punish Willow per se but this might help you.  If for some reason she is acting up or not responding to commands she knows I will get a little stricter with allowing her on furniture, making her do NILIF more strictly, that sort of thing.  So, it's not like she's relating  what I'm doing to the particular incident but it sort of re-sets her attitude and focus in general.

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoCo Chanel
    I'm still left blank as to how to "punish" a dog?  What are you supposed to do? 

    I totally understand your question and it's a tricky one to answer. But I'll try. In the situation you had, there is NO way to punish her. It's just impossible. You cannot punish the dog unless you have her at the time of the transgression. So, as it was, her transgression included running away from you. There's no way you can punish her because no matter what you do once you have her, she's not going to relate it to what she did.

    The only proper way to punish the dog (IMO) is to have her on a leash and give her a leash correction. But since this particular transgression only occurs off leash, there's nothing you can do. That's why you have to make sure she doesn't have the opportunity to do this.

    As an aside: Some people think that punishment means hitting, screaming, kicking, anger, frustration, abuse  blah-blah-blah. And I say that's abuse, that's not punishment.

    CoBuHe
    Wholeheartedly agree that the resolution here is to disallow the potential for unwanted behavior.

    Agreed. In this case. Sometimes I believe it's necessary to allow for unwanted behavior just so you can correct immediately. That's the only time punishment will work. Some people believe that dogs should never be put into the position of being corrected, and always be set up to succeed, but I disagree with that. (Not saying you're saying that, CoBuHe) Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

    FourIsCompany

    CoBuHe
    Wholeheartedly agree that the resolution here is to disallow the potential for unwanted behavior.

    Agreed. In this case. Sometimes I believe it's necessary to allow for unwanted behavior just so you can correct immediately. That's the only time punishment will work. Some people believe that dogs should never be put into the position of being corrected, and always be set up to succeed, but I disagree with that. (Not saying you're saying that, CoBuHe) Smile

    No, I get what you mean.  Aside from this scenario...How do they learn what is acceptable behavior if they never behave badly.  There isn't a dog around that hasn't behaved badly at one point or another, and shown it ain't cool. Big Smile 

    I was thinking about this thread when we were sitting outside and Heidi was acting bratty pushing her ball against my leg repeatedly.  She required a punishment.  I put the ball away for the night.  Stick out tongue  I know this is off from what the OP had in mind when asking the question...but I think we established that a punishment in that particular scenario is amiss.

    • Gold Top Dog

    When she has done something like she did with dashing across the street and "assumes the position" don't laugh and rub her belly.  That in itself, that minor withholding of affection, should get through to her that you aren't pleased that she didn't obey.

    This is a far more difficult question than I think you realize.  My experience with terrors....errr TERRIORS is quite limited, but my gsds are independent thinkers and I honestly never have occassion to punish them.  They come to me when I call, off lead, because coming to mommy might mean a toss of the ball, a treat, or a good ear rubbing or maybe just lavish praise.  Coming to mommy is never ever a bad thing, and never for something icky like cutting nails or because I'm angry.

    I certainly DO have occassion to correct....particularly now with all of us squeezed into this rv like sardines in a too small can.  And normally, it's simply speaking to them.  I use the "mom" voice, and they listen.  Occassionally someone will decide to horde all the bones and toys and then growl should anyone come near, and when that happens, which is probably punishment, I simply pick everything up and return it to the communal toy box and tell the offender "you may have ONE at a time"  When Thor took off after a wild turkey, he froze midstep when I called out "Thor, leave it", and came trotting back to me.  He got a whole lot of extra ball tosses that day.  I didn't even think about punishing him for taking off after the turkey.....that's his nature and his instinct.....instead I've trained a good and reliable recall so he can be off lead in some areas and rewarded him for doing the right thing, which in this case was to stop the chase and return to me.

    Honestly, this all comes down to the training my dogs have had, and the continual reinforcement of that training.  And that's really all it's going to take with your girl.  But, I do think that you need to rethink your whole training situation so that she ALWAYS does the right thing, and then you eliminate any need for punishment.  You really do need to set things up for her to always suceed and never fail.  And, if she does fail, then you need to look at your training to figure out why.

    I don't recall if you've taken her to classes or not.  If not, I'd suggest considering doing so.  YOU get so much information and you learn so much about how to teach her.  And working together in classes really strengthens the bond between you.

    To me, training is kind of a lifelong thing, constantly reinforcing, adding new challenges as situations change.  I've worked really hard with my reactive Sheba but still put a basket muzzle on her in situations that I know will be stressful to her.  Yet, at the campground, I've continued to work with her, and by golly NOW if someone approaches on the paths, I simply step off the path and let them pass, and she, stands beside me calmly, but alertly, with absolutely no sign of agression.    That's huge for her and has taken a very long time to accomplish.  I think that any sort of punishment along the way to getting to where we are now, would have just set her back and reinforced in her mind that people cause bad things to happen and that she's right to be reactive.

    Training is such a huge part of life with a dog.

    And yeah, you really can "talk" to her.  I talk to my crew all the time.  I tell them what I expect, I tell them what they are doing that I like and what I don't like, and when I need to give them meds, I'm very straightforward and remind them WHY they need those meds.  I don't try to hide meds, I just slip them into some cheese and tell them THIS piece has your pill.  And perhaps because I do talk to them so much, my dogs are very aware of even the slightest change in my tone of voice and respond to that.

    My dogs are very much part of my family too......but remember, all family members have certain responsibilities and even  human children have to follow "the rules".

    • Gold Top Dog

    FourIsCompany
    I totally understand your question and it's a tricky one to answer. But I'll try. In the situation you had, there is NO way to punish her. It's just impossible. You cannot punish the dog unless you have her at the time of the transgression. So, as it was, her transgression included running away from you. There's no way you can punish her because no matter what you do once you have her, she's not going to relate it to what she did.

     

    Exactly - she will connect it with the coming back, so it will have the opposite effect to what you want!  If you "allow" her to run off in the first place, you put yourself in a lose-lose situation, which is why we are saying, don't let it happen.

    FourIsCompany
    As an aside: Some people think that punishment means hitting, screaming, kicking, anger, frustration, abuse  blah-blah-blah. And I say that's abuse, that's not punishment.


    I think that was well said Smile

     

    FourIsCompany
    CoBuHe
    Wholeheartedly agree that the resolution here is to disallow the potential for unwanted behavior.
    Agreed. In this case. Sometimes I believe it's necessary to allow for unwanted behavior just so you can correct immediately. That's the only time punishment will work. Some people believe that dogs should never be put into the position of being corrected, and always be set up to succeed, but I disagree with that. (Not saying you're saying that, CoBuHe) Smile

    With some dogs at least, I think you are wrong.  I think dogs (and us) get much more from feelings of success than feelings of failure.  With some dogs, even a "no reward marker" (a fairly neutral sound that means "nope, not that";) can be extraordinarily discouraging.  You can taste of it if you play "clicking" with humans.  One human "plays" the dog and is marked for every move in the right direction.  Then you duplicate the excericse, only mark for the wrong behaviour.  The second exercise is hugely frustrating and confusing and sometimes even upsetting.  It sounds like this little dog is pretty sensitive, so you might want to re-think whether punishing her at all really is a great idea....  But whatever the answer to THAT question, any form of punishment is out when teaching a recall.

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoCo Chanel

     I mean... it's not as though she's a human child in which I can sit her down and have the "talk" with her...

    LOL, off topic, but last night Cheza was being a total brat and without even thinking about it I started to give her a lecture about why her behavior was unacceptable. She just sat and cocked her head at me, and obviously had no clue what I was talking about. I had to laugh at myself about it.

    • Silver

    If by "punishment" you mean communicating to your dog after she has done something you didn't want her to do that it was "wrong" then IMO ther is no such thing. I see people sometimes talking about putting dogs in their crates for "time-outs" etc - it doesn't work. Dogs don't reflect on what they might have done in the recent past to deserve getting sent to the corner. They understand that their actions can influence how humans treat them ut it is very much in the here and now.

    I think the closest you can come to a 'punishment' would be a correction- dog starts to run into the street, you holler 'no' before her paw touches the asphalt, she reacts and stops. But a correction is something which has to be a very immediate thing, otherwise the dog won't make the right association.

    • Gold Top Dog

    the most effective way to "punish" a dog is to "remove the desired reward" like attention or a fun game or dinner or access to squirrel-chasing. Doggy is bad, doggy doesn't get what doggy wants. Doggy is good, doggy gets things doggy wants. Dog is highly motivated to comply. No need to ever use scolding or pain, use psychology instead.