Feeding IBD dog

xololover

I have a 10 year old Xolo who has had a liver condition for 6 years and now has become IBD because of all the medications and the liver

problem. Feeding is a problem because some IBD foods are not compatible with the liver condition. He has been on I/D, Salmon  and Brown Rice, Rabbit and Potato, which has made his intestine problem worse. Found a good homemade diet for the liver, but it contains things that

aren't recommended for IBD dogs.  Does any one have any ideas?

My IBD cat, who almost died before diagnosis and was literally skin and bones, has done wonderfully for several years now on Purina One Sensitive Systems kibble.  I know, I know --- it goes against everything so many "experts" (*cough* *cough*) on Internet message boards would have you believe.  But in her case it works and works wonderfully.  So we don't mess with it.  And there is a dog version.  But I have no idea how compatible it would be for a dog with liver issues.  And as I'm sure you know, what works for one IBD animal won't necessarily work for another.

RawFedDogs

It is obvious when a dog has IBD or IBS or pancreatitis.

Really?  Seriously?  You can accurately diagnose a dog with pancreatitis just by symptoms?  And tell the difference between IBS or potentially life-threatening IBD?  I suspect many vet schools would love to have someone so omniscient on their staff.

The pre-kibble dogs just didn't have those problems.

Source?  And make it a reliable, unbiased one, please.

I'm not saying that every dog that is fed kibble will get the particular diseases we are discussing but I will say that if they have these problems, kibble is the cause.

People who breath air and wear yellow shirts have these same problems, too.  Ergo breathing and wearing yellow shirts must cause disease.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Dogs fed a proper raw diet don't have these problems.

I've known quite a few raw fed dogs who've had all sorts of health issues.  It's a legitimate feeding option for some dogs.  Is it a magic bullet that miraculously makes a dog immune to illness or disease?  Absolutely, positively not.

I will say with 100% certainty that kibble causes oversize softish smelly stools as well as tooth and gum problems in almost every dog that eats it.

I've had eight kibble fed dogs.  None had any of those problems.

It also causes the greatest majority of the allergy problems.  Allergy is another thing that dogs didn't have before kibble came along.

The vast majority of allergies in dogs are flea bite allergies.  Then come inhalant allergens (pollens, molds, etc.).  True food allergies are statistically relatively rare, and it is protein molecules in food that trigger food allergies in dogs.  And it doesn't matter where those protein molecules come from or in what form (meat based proteins, grains, kibble, home-cooked or raw).

Myra

Really?  Seriously?  You can accurately diagnose a dog with pancreatitis just by symptoms?  And tell the difference between IBS or potentially life-threatening IBD?  I suspect many vet schools would love to have someone so omniscient on their staff.

 You isolate one sentence in a paragraph and pay no attention to the sentences before and after.  I can win discussions without having to resort to this tactics.  I'm disappointed in you.  I hoped you would be more of a challenge.

Myra

Source?  And make it a reliable, unbiased one, please.

You are just really not doing real well with this.  I am the source.  I lived in those days.  I can remember the first dog I fed kibble to.  It was probably in the early 80's before I fed kibble.  Most of the dogs around me weren't fed kibble either. I know what life was like back then and what owning a dog was like.  I was also good friends with the town vet.  We socialized together so I was more than just a client to him.

Myra

People who breath air and wear yellow shirts have these same problems, too.  Ergo breathing and wearing yellow shirts must cause disease.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Now thats just silly BUT if a list of diseases was rare before the breathing/yellow shirts appeared and began in epidemic porportions after they appeared then it strongly suggests causation don't you think?.

Myra

I've known quite a few raw fed dogs who've had all sorts of health issues.  It's a legitimate feeding option for some dogs.  Is it a magic bullet that miraculously makes a dog immune to illness or disease?  Absolutely, positively not.

I never said it was but what I did say and will repeat for you is ... a prey model raw diet is the BEST diet for ANY dog regardless of breed, age, or health.  There are no exceptions.  Not just "some dogs" ... ALL dogs.

Myra

I've had eight kibble fed dogs.  None had any of those problems.

Well, you have never had a prey model raw fed dog and until you do you can't compare.  I have had 3 kibble fed dogs that I switched to raw and I could immediately see the difference.  Stools became 25% as large and no odor.  Bad breath disappeared.  "Dog smell" disappeared.  Yellow dirty teeth became pearly white.  Peiriodontal disease disappeared.  All within a few weeks on all three dogs.  Don't say its just my dogs and not proof of anything.  I have seen literally 100's of posts on other boards about people having the same experience.  Believe me, ALL kibble fed dogs have oversize softish smelly stools compared to raw fed dogs.  Thats a fact.  If you don't believe me, and i doubt you do, try it on your dogs and you will see.  You wll be amazed at the size and frequency and lack of odor of the stools.  That alone proves that the diet is far superior.

Myra

The vast majority of allergies in dogs are flea bite allergies.  Then come inhalant allergens (pollens, molds, etc.).  True food allergies are statistically relatively rare, and it is protein molecules in food that trigger food allergies in dogs.

I assume you have some unbiased data on that because its amazing on how few allergies that raw fed dogs have.  Perhaps its just because their immune system is.  I don't know.

Myra

And it doesn't matter where those protein molecules come from or in what form (meat based proteins, grains, kibble, home-cooked or raw).

The more you study nutrition you will learn that there is a vast difference between animal and plant protein even in a human diet.  You will also learn that cooking changes protein greatly.  You can tell just by looking at it that it's changed. I don't think there are many if any dogs that are allergic to raw meat. It would be like a cow being allergic to grass.

 I believe she said an unbiased one...

I am a raw feeder, 3 of my dogs are on it. 2 of my dogs are doing amazing on, my other one how ever has been a challenge.  She has true food allergies as well as environmental. She truly can not eat certain proteins so she gets veggies in her diet.

I do not believe that raw food is best for a dog with IBS or IBD as I've heard it can trigger a bad reaction.  Raw diet is not best for dogs with stomach problems.  Don't get me wrong, I love the raw diet but certain dogs can't handle it. 

Yes dogs are in close family with wolves and are carnivores but they have also been bred to our (human) standards so there are small changes to the GI tract. There may not be physical changes but I believe there are chemical changes which causes some dogs to have issues with raw meat.

And whether you like it or not, some dogs just do better on a commercial diet. My foster dog does amazing on Alpo.. Yes it's crap but he's healthy as a horse and he's 18 and still going strong.

oranges81

I am a raw feeder, 3 of my dogs are on it. 2 of my dogs are doing amazing on, my other one how ever has been a challenge.  She has true food allergies as well as environmental. She truly can not eat certain proteins so she gets veggies in her diet.

I am convinced that your allergy dog can do well on a meat, bones, and organs diet.  If you are sure she is alergic to some proteins, put her on an elimination diet to find out what she is allergic to and don't feed that.  I am not convinced that your dog NEEDS veggies.  Her body is not designed to digest veggies and it has to work very hard to do so.  Back in my beginning days of raw feeding I fed a BARF diet and my dogs had diarrhea every single time the day after a veggie meal.

oranges81

I do not believe that raw food is best for a dog with IBS or IBD as I've heard it can trigger a bad reaction.  Raw diet is not best for dogs with stomach problems.  Don't get me wrong, I love the raw diet but certain dogs can't handle it

You are operating under the mistaken notion that raw meat, bones, and organs are more difficult to digest than kibble or veggies and that is just not so.  I haven't heard first hand from someone who's IBS or IBD dog had a bad reaction from a PMR diet.  I have seen many IBS and IBD dogs completly get over symptoms of these digestive problem once put on a PMR diet.  PMR is the IDEAL diet for dogs with stomach problems.  It is easier to digest than any food you can feed them because its what they are designed to digest.

oranges81

Yes dogs are in close family with wolves and are carnivores but they have also been bred to our (human) standards so there are small changes to the GI tract. There may not be physical changes but I believe there are chemical changes which causes some dogs to have issues with raw meat.

Dogs are not close family with wolves, the ARE wolves with the same digestive system as wild wolves of today.  I keep hearing from the nay sayers that dogs have "evolved" or "adapted" or "changed" to be able to eat differently than wild wolves.  Each time I hear this I ask what those changes are and have yet to hear an answer.  The correct answer is that there have been no changes.  Kibble has only been around for about 50 years so dogs haven't had enough time to evolve.

oranges81

And whether you like it or not, some dogs just do better on a commercial diet. My foster dog does amazing on Alpo.. Yes it's crap but he's healthy as a horse and he's 18 and still going strong.

Doesn't matter what I like.  Dogs being healthier on commercial diet is like people being healthier on fast food and tv dinners.  We both know that isn't the case.  Saying that there are some dogs that can't eat raw meat, bones, and organs is like saying that there are some cows or horses that can't eat grass and I don't think those animals exist either.  There is just no physical condition a dog can have that would make it preferable to feed him junk food.

 We have done the elimination diet and I know she can not handle a lot of proteins. And as for not being able to digest veggies, she processes them just fine. You can come here and tell Maze that she's not supposed to have veggies.

You are operating under the mistaken notion that raw meat, bones, and organs are more difficult to digest than kibble or veggies and that is just not so.  I haven't heard first hand from someone who's IBS or IBD dog had a bad reaction from a PMR diet.  I have seen many IBS and IBD dogs completly get over symptoms of these digestive problem once put on a PMR diet.  PMR is the IDEAL diet for dogs with stomach problems.  It is easier to digest than any food you can feed them because its what they are designed to digest.

You are assuming I'm operated under that notion. And I'm not. I know they are more difficult to digest then raw meat. And I have been in contact with people who have that type of dog.  Raw diet almost killed their dog.  This diet is NOT the be all and end all of food.  Each dog is different and so they react differently to food. Also it's not just the stomach that has to deal, it's the liver and bowels. And what about dogs with auto-immune problems?

Doesn't matter what I like.  Dogs being healthier on commercial diet is like people being healthier on fast food and tv dinners.  We both know that isn't the case.  Saying that there are some dogs that can't eat raw meat, bones, and organs is like saying that there are some cows or horses that can't eat grass and I don't think those animals exist either.  There is just no physical condition a dog can have that would make it preferable to feed him junk food.

Where did I say Dipstick was healthier for being on commercial diet? I tried him on raw and almost lost him. He could not handle it. His system almost shut down. And at 18 years old, I'll feed him what keeps him healthy. Is it the best for him, No!, but it's what he can handle. 

Personally I love this diet. I'll never feed kibble to my guys again but I will not remove veggies and fruit from their diet just because they are not built for it. My dogs enjoy it, they digest it just fine.  My allergy dog lost all her fur on an all raw diet. She developed scales, smell, dry coarse fur and the vets couldn't tell me why.  I played around with her diet, added veggies, different proteins and supplements as needed and she looks 10 times better. 

As I stated before, this diet is a choice and is not the be all and end all of dog food. Every dog is different.