Am I Clicker Training the Right Way?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Am I Clicker Training the Right Way?

    Lizzie was doing really good on her sit with our clicker training routine. Yes I know she is 5 months old and should know more but I believe in having a solid behavior before starting on the next. She had a REALLY bad ‘come#%92 (she would run away and come back or dance inches away) that has gotten better because once she learned that ‘come#%92 equals click and treat she started coming better and now she will come for a just a head scratch or a ‘good girl#%92.
     
    But since she started refusing to sit I have been doing things a bit different. I will put a treat over her head and once she begins to sit I will tell her ‘sit#%92 and click and treat. Then the session is over. I will randomly repeat this so she isn#%92t pressured into a formal training session but is still learning what sit is (I think). Am I doing this correctly? Is it o that I am waiting until I see that she is going to sit to say ‘sit#%92? I am doing this so IMO she doesn#%92t keep hearing ‘sit, sit, sit#%92 without actually sitting. Just wanted some advice and if anyone can let me know if I#%92m doing something wrong. Thanks!
     
    Julitza
    • Gold Top Dog
    I haven't clicker trained so I can't say anthing about the procedures you are using, but... I wanted to say that with intelligent dogs, they get bored rather quickly and can learn many behaviors.  Simply teaching one at a time and working on it for long periods seems like it would be boring.  Why not spice it up, teach the down or yet another behavior?
    • Gold Top Dog
    i agree with xerxes. she is probably bored with just doing sit. the way we learned clicker training is to initially coax the dog into position with a treat, once the dog sits, click, say good sit, and then treat. once they learn the command just say sit and if they do then click and treat.
    • Gold Top Dog
    you can also end up with a dog who can't distinguish between commands-- if you work on sit and nothing else for weeks on end, in future the dog may think any and all commands you give mean "sit".  With pups I usually rapidly run through five or six different behaviors in any one short training session, keep it fun and exciting and challenging, and of course throw in random commands throughout the day as you interact with the pup. A five-month old puppy can sort-of-know all of the basic obedience commands plus a fairly large number of tricks. And then yes, you need to keep working on proofing them and getting them down rock-solid, which may take you years.
    • Gold Top Dog
    oh, and let me address the proper use of the clicker: it's just a signal to the dog that the dog is correct. It's a tool to communicate, you can use it in hundreds of ways. In classical training, you don't actually add in a cue (the signal that initiates the behavior) until the dog is sitting reliably-- you would just stand there watching your dog, and when the dog happens to sit, you'd click and treat (capture the behavior). And repeat, until the dog is offering to "sit" whenever the dog wants something. Then and only then would you start saying "sit" (put the behavior on cue). Most of us are way too impatient to do this, so we do things to encourage the dog to show us the behavior by luring the dog into position.
     
    Whatever you do, don't go around chanting or repeating commands. Say "sit" WHILE you do the food-lure movement, and then click when the butt hits the ground. After repeating this a couple of times, try saying "sit", and hesitate. If the pup sits, good; if not, do the lure movement.
    • Gold Top Dog
    If you want to learn more about clicker training try this website: [linkhttp://www.clickertrainusa.com]www.clickertrainusa.com[/link]
    It has training videos and articles that will surely help you.
    • Gold Top Dog
    With clicker training, the thing most people have a problem with is being PATIENT.
     
    I personally loooooove clicker training! Strauss and I are up to 8 tricks with it, AND he is now doing full retrieves with his dumbbell! Both on the flat and over the jump!!

    One thing though, many people like to tell a dog to do something and then click for that....the way I was taught, is that that is incorrect.

    Clicker training is operant (or is it classical, I get em mixed up all the time) conditioning, and thus, the dog is supposed to be thinking on his own. He should offer you behaviors. You shouldn't be telling them what to do and clicking it until later.

    For example, when I started teaching Strauss the retrieve, it went like this (keep in mind he is OFFERING me all these behaviors, I am not telling him to do anything in the beginning stages). Also, sometimes a dog will offer you something, but it's not a "concious" offering so to speak.

    C&T = Click & Treat

    1. Look at dumbbell - C&T <--This is the offering I'm talking about that is not really a concious kind of thing. He's offered me a behavior, but doesn't really realize it, whereas othertimes, if I want him to mess with an object (like a box lid), he'll conciously try several different things to get a click and treat.

    2. Touch dumbbell anywhere - C&T

    3. Touch dumbbell bar only - C&T

    4. Bite dumbbell anywhere - C&T

    5. Bite dumbbell bar only - C&T

    6. Pick up dumbbell (does not have to hold) - C&T

    Once he started picking up the dumbbell on his own and it was consistent, I started telling him "Take it". He then started getting C&Ts for taking it on command. He no longer got a click for taking the dumbbell unless I told him to do so.

    From there, we moved onto him getting a C&T for holding the dumbbell for longer and longer periods of time. After that, I started holding it in different places for him to grab (up high, down low near the floor, out to the side, etc), and he'd get a C&T for taking it on command that way.

    Moving out from holding it out, I'd sit on the floor, take the dumbbell, and put it 6 inches away. He'd get a C&T for going to it and picking it up. I moved the dumbbell farther and farther away, and we are now up to a full retrieve, finish and all :-)

    The hardest part about clicker training, is that you MUST be patient! The dogs needs to offer YOU the behaviors. Honestly, some dogs really just don't get it!

    My brother's Labrador is this way. I've tried using all sorts of things for him to get him interested...I don't even think it's a "You don't have good enough stuff" thing. He still hasn't connected the click with food. I sat there with him for 25 minutes, waiting for him to at least offer me something....he sat and stared at me the entire time. Didn't even offer me an eye flick...

    Other dogs may be slower to respond because they have been taught in the traditional and rigid style (even if you've made it fun), that you do what I say when I say it or you get a correction. Freeshaping allows the dog to think for himself, and for obedience dogs who have been trained with correction, they don't want to be wrong, so they start out a bit tentatively. Once they break out of that box, it's usually smooth sailing
    • Gold Top Dog
    My brother's Labrador is this way. I've tried using all sorts of things for him to get him interested...I don't even think it's a "You don't have good enough stuff" thing. He still hasn't connected the click with food. I sat there with him for 25 minutes, waiting for him to at least offer me something....he sat and stared at me the entire time. Didn't even offer me an eye flick...

     
    this is very common in dogs who been heavily lure- or correction- trained. They've actually learned that not-behaving is what gives them rewards-- think about it. If they don't do anything, the owner gets out the food and lures them into position. If they don't do anything unless commanded to do so, they don't get corrected.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I must admit that is how I started training with Lizzie, but hey I didnt know better! I think now for the more complicated things I will start training the 'right' way by letting her offer me the behaviors.
     
    She learned sit and down the 'traditional way. I would put a treat behind her head and when she sat she  got a C&T, if she didnt sit she got nothing. Down was the same way. She also know 'Give me paw' which she came to us already doing it, but I managed to shape the behavior so now she doesnt scratch at you everytime she wants something, but only when we ask for it. So I did at least one thing right!
     
    Ive also got a MUCH better motivation, hot dogs!! She will do anything for a tiny piece of hotdog, but yes I know that I eventually have to start eliminating the treat, so I ask for the nehavior and treat and for the next time she only gets praise