Making dog understand his boundaries

    • Bronze

    Making dog understand his boundaries

    This is my first post here, and I really need help.  I have a 3 yr old boxer, and we adopted him from a shelter when he was about 10 mos.  He is very obedient once he understands what is expected of him.   I never taught him boundaries because a) I don't know how and b) I don't ever let him out without a leash so I didn't really think it was necessary.  Unfortunately, I recently had the front door open for a couple seconds as I was bringing in bags of groceries and he slipped out the door and took off running down the street.  I chased him and finally caught up to him (I didn't scold him because I didnt want him to be scared to come home if it ever happens again)  I need to find a way to teach him that he is to stay inside even if the door is open... but I don't know how to teach him that without risking him taking off again (and he runs FAST).  Any advice??  He doesn't understand the dangers of cars, other dogs, etc.
    • Gold Top Dog
    First thing you can do is teach him to "wait".  I start this training using the food bowl.  I ask my dog to sit, then I say "wait" as I hold up my hand like a stop sign.  I begin to lower the bowl to the floor.  If my dog gets up, I raise the bowl.  I repeat this until I can get the bowl all the way to the floor and then I quickly say "ok" (you can use "free" if you don't want to risk someone else saying "ok" at an inappropriate moment), and I let the dog eat.
    Once the dog understands this, and waits every single time, then you can go on to asking the dog to wait at doors.  I tell my dog "sit" "wait", then I open the door slightly.  If the dog comes forward, I shut the door.  They quickly learn that the only way to get out is to wait first for the human to say "ok".  Once my dog knows this at the food bowl and the doors, I start making imaginary lines on the floor!
    They must learn to "wait" anywhere, any time. 
    Aside from "leave it" and "come", this is one of the best life-saving commands your dog can know.
    Instead of chasing, if he does get loose, you want to be able to call and have him return to you.
    Grab the booklet or the DVD - Leslie Nelson's "Really Reliable Recall" (dogwise.com should have it) and get started! [sm=happy.gif]
    • Puppy
    Ok i swear this works, i dont know if you have heard about the TV show "the dog whisperer" on the national geographic channel?

    Well this guy helps people solving problems like that, he had exactly 2 different dogs doing the same to a couple clients, the good thing is that he shows you what to do and how and you don even have to use anything or even say a word!!!

    And is not like somebody told me, i saw it in the TV show and then i did it with my friend's dogs, his dogs were doing the same, running away everytime the door was open, then i did what the guy in the tV show did and in less than 10 minutes the dogs were staying right inside with out running away and with the door wide open!!! i even called one of the dogs outside and made the other one stay inside and it worked, they were not my dogs and were never trained in any way, is really easy to do but i would recommend you to watch the TV show to know exactly how

    [linkhttp://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/]http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/[/link]
    • Bronze
    I would give him the sit, stay command. I would use a leash and place him in a sit postion at the front door with you standing between him and the door give the stay command and open the door, if he starts to take off pull on the leash, put him back in sit ;position and give the stay command and repeat until he gets it. Now for the training him boundaries. I would walk him around the perimeter of the yard and every time he tried to take off or pull passed the boundaries I would give him a leash correction. I would do this until he understood where he boundaries are. Some people use the electronic fences or those E-Collars to teach the dog yard boundaries. If you haven't taught the stay command get a leash and place him in a sit position and stand in front of him and take a step back if he moves place him back in to the sit position again and tell him to stay then step back again if he stays this time give him a treat or a praise repeat this until you can make it to the length of the leash.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    OK, so now you have one positive suggestion, and two that involve punishment.  Your choice, but in my experience, yanking a dog simply makes him want to pull harder in the opposite direction.  Eventually, it might work, but as evidence - my six month old puppy waits before going in and out doorways, waits before entering or exiting the car, waits before exiting her crate, and waits for the food bowl to be lowered so we never clunk heads.  They will wait at cracks in the sidewalk, or imaginary lines on my bedroom rug.  My dogs know the word "wait" so well, that none of them even think to go out the door without looking back at me for permission.  I have never had to resort to yanking any of them, and there are 5.
    • Bronze
    There is nothing wrong with leash correction. Leash correction is considered a negative reinforcement. Not punishment.
     
    And I wanted to add that all 6 of mine have done very well with leash correction.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I've been working on being off leash with Marley. I read this article and the biggest point it made was that when we remove the leash...the dog thinks "I'm Free" and runs away. The removal of the leash or the fact that there is no leash needs to be no big deal and no different than if there is one. They suggested dropping the leash when you are walking with the dog and make sure that the dog is still following you. Also, when you remove the leash drop some food on the ground and walk away...the dog should catch up to you (after it eats the treat). Treat the dog when he gets to you. The idea is that you want the dog to come to you when the leash is off rather than run away. Teaching a reliable come is handy too. Hope that helps. [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    There is nothing wrong with leash correction. Leash correction is considered a negative reinforcement. Not punishment.

    And I wanted to add that all 6 of mine have done very well with leash correction.

     
    While I agree correcting a dog who is deliberately disobeying is ok, there is a LOT wrong with using leash correction to train a new behavior. Let's say your mom is trying to teach you to tie your shoes. She hands you a pair of shoes. Then she proceeds to hit you with a ruler over and over again, to correct you for not putting on and tying your shoes. How long do you think it's going to take you to figure out what she wants you to do? How do you think you'll feel towards your mom? What if, instead, she patiently gave you a cookie every time you tried to tie your shoes? Dogs "trained" through leash corrections give up trying to do anything because they are afraid of being corrected. They become passive and stop thinking and often stop doing anything unless directly ordered to do something. Sadly a lot of trainers and dog owners like their dogs to be this way, and describe them as well-trained. And of course, you come to the biggest problem with relying on leash corrections to train: namely, that once the leash is removed, you have no tools with which to communicate with the dog. Many leash-corrected dogs will simply take off running the second the leash is removed. They don't like their owners very much, and have learned they only have to behave if they are wearing a leash. In this case, using a leash correction is just silly. The dog cannot run off when wearing a leash. Teaching him to not run off while he is wearing a leash seems kind of pointless, especially if he now fears you because all you do is yank on his neck for no apparent reason he can figure out.
    What you want is a dog who voluntarily stays with you, leash or no leash, because he knows all good things come from you, and he knows you are a fair but firm leader. What you want is a dog who comes when called because he gets rewarded for doing so. A dog who knows a Stay command and obeys it whether he is wearing a leash or not. A dog who NEVER goes through doorways until you invite him to do so.
    In your case, I'd teach the dog a WAIT command in a safe context (not near the open door): start out by praising and rewarding the dog for not moving for a brief second while you stand next to him, and gradually increase the time and distance from you he'll WAIT. Then try it every time you take him out the door-- ask him to WAIT for a second after you open the door before he goes out with you. You might also want to work on such a basic commands as "come here" and an emergency "drop in motion".
     
    If you really want him to stay inside your yard boundary without installing a fence, go for an invisible fence. You then have to train the dog to respect the boundary-- again, by rewarding for not crossing the boundary. Most such systems include complete training instructions. Most dogs during the training will receive two or three corrections from the fence and hundreds of rewards from the owner. Quite different from the above-described method of leash-corrections to train the dog to stay in. And, since the "corrections" apparently come from the ground, not the owner, the relationship with the owner is not damaged, and the behavior will persist even in the absence of a leash and the owner.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: luv4gsds

    There is nothing wrong with leash correction. Leash correction is considered a negative reinforcement. Not punishment.

    And I wanted to add that all 6 of mine have done very well with leash correction.

    I thought it was positive punishment, since it is the addition of something, and it decreases the behavior. Please tell me how it's negative reinforcement?
    Additionally, teaching wait and using your body to block the dog from passing a boundary may work well, or at least I found it to( I had worked on waiting for food first I think). When I took one of my  dogs to places he really liked (the park, Petsmart, etc.) I would open the door, and if the dog tried to get out , I got in his way. When he stopped trying to push his way out the door, I let him out. Thinking about it, I also never take his leash until i'm going to release him, unless I am releasing him into a situation where I am not taking his leash, like to another person, or a fenced area. So, he might be using it as a clue that he's allowed to go, and it's one I don't mind. You could do the same thing at the doorway, blocking him from going out until he stops pushing at it, then allowing him through to go out for a walk or whatever.
    Or, you could use NILIF (nothing in life is free) and teach him that he must sit and wait for you to leash him in order to go out. He will probably start sitting automatically upon coming to that spot after he figures out how it works. Then you can work up to you walking away from him while he stays, and you return to leash him and take him for a walk. If you needed to, you could even teach him to stay while you leave his sight.
    • Bronze
    Operant Conditioning
    There are four types of Operant Conditioning
    1. Positive Reinforcement
    2. Negative Reinforcement
    3. Punishment
    4. Extinction

    Both Positive and Negative Reinforcement strength behavior while both Punishment & Extinction weaken behavior.

    Operant Conditioning is how we teach dogs to respond to our commands.

    Negative Reinforcement increases a behvior by ending or taking away something bad or aversive. By making the dog circumstances better, you are rewarding it and increasing the likelihood that it will repeat the behavior you ended the bad thing.

    When you gave a leash correction you are taking something way.

    What you described mudpuppy is right down physical ;punishment. Your not hitting the dog with the leash. And once again leash correction is not punishment. And I didn't say stand at an open door I said place him in a sit postion at the front door with you standing between him and the door. I see some of you use the Classical Conditioning.

    Classical Conditioning is a process in which an animal learns to associate one event that comes immediately after another event. Like clicker training is concetered a Classical Conditioning because you reward the dog with the sound of the clicker.

    Many leash-corrected dogs will simply take off running the second the leash is removed. They don't like their owners very much, and have learned they only have to behave if they are wearing a leash. In this case, using a leash correction is just silly.


    Than you haven't seen those dogs trained have you. Those dogs haven't been basic obedience trained. And how dare you say that they don't like their owners, how do you know this can you talk to animals. My dogs know commands off leash as well as on a leash. And I must say that statement is just silly from you. I see you haven't trained to many dogs.

    They are a lot of trainers out in world that use leash correction and they have trained a lot of dogs by leash correction.

    William Koehler
    Barbara Woodhouse
    Pam Green (Cactus Canine)
    Patrick Smith (Cadence Kennels)
    William and Vivian Stoppel (Scotch Pines Dog Training)
    Leerburg

    These are just some of the dog trainers that use leash corrections.

    I didn't come here to start any arguments. I was giving some one some advice that has worked for me. But some of you have made it a point to make it an argument from some of your statements thrown at me. I have been around dogs all my life (35 years). I have been using leash correction most of my life with dog training. So you all have your way and I have mine which you haven't seen me ;post any negative things at your training technics have you.
     
    I wanted to add. This is from Leerburg website.
    There are two processes for reinforcement, positive and negative. Positive Reinforcement involves giving something positive (a candy, a pat on the back, a compliment etc.). Those things that meet basic needs (food to a hungry person, warmth to someone who is cold, etc.) are referred to as Primary reinforcers. Those things that acquire their value by being paired with a Primary reinforcer (money, compliments, etc.)  are referred to as Secondary reinforcers. Negative Reinforcement is a little more complex.  Technically it involves either escaping or avoiding something that is aversive, thereby increasing the likelihood of the escaping or avoiding behavior.  Most of us have touched a hot stove at some point in our lives. Jerking our hand away is a behavior that is negatively reinforced in that we escape the aversive heat. 
    Furthermore, keeping our hands away from hot stoves is negatively reinforced in the future because we avoid getting burned! Theoretically, negative reinforcement results in faster learning and learning which stays with us longer than positive reinforcement. Because it requires an aversive to be present "up front" it is rarely, if ever, used in a systematic approach to teaching.