Dog Community

Our very nice golden retriever......but also very vicious.

Posted : 11/30/2006 10:48:17 PM

Hi. Sorry this is a long thread, but I didn't know how else to sum this up.

My parents and I own a six month old golden retriever. She can be very nice. However, she can also be a vicious and wild dog every three hours. Here's the characteristics of her being nice:

Relaxed; minimal biting (sometimes); obedient; friendly; affectionate. This is when my dad is not home.

Here's the characteristics of her being a vicious and wild dog:

Fierce; exposes teeth and growls--no barking, however; will bite forcefully, leaving penetrations in the skin, otherwise bleeding; extremely active (running/jumping/you name it); almost impossible to make her obey anything. This is, however, in a short amount of time and happens every three hours. Amazingly enough, she already knows she has been naughty--we put her in the crate when she does not want to (doesn't mind it when we leave the house or if it's bedtime). It only takes about five minutes of this, and after she is put into the crate she has this sad face like she realizes what she had just done.

My dog is very nice with my mom and I. However, when my dad comes home from work, it doesn't take two seconds for her to switch from a very nice dog to that vicious dog that I was describing above.

My dad will be like this with the dog:
--rough, playfully
--wrestle, playfully

He is also very sympathetic towards the dog's feelings. The other day, he said that her biting is just a way of showing her affection. I've never of something so inane in my life.

Also, my dog has not been getting much physical/outdoor activity because of her recent surgery (she got spayed). Is this a reason for her aggressiveness?

Do we all need to be a lot more abrupt with "no!" when she bites?
Should she be put in the crate or leashed up in an enclosed room more frequently she gets aggressive?
How can I convince my dad that he is showing the dog that she is the 'alpha' by wrestling with her and being playful with her and overly sympathetic?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Anything. Correct anything you want that I may be doing wrong because I want to learn from this.

Thanks a lot!

Jeff

jones

Posted : 12/1/2006 1:12:38 AM

Your dog is still just a puppy. Puppies play with each other by wrestling and biting... and the more that kind of play is encouraged (as it is by your dad) the more they will do it. To call this behavior "vicious" is really wildly inaccurate. You can and should train her out of this behavior (since as she gets bigger she could accidentally hurt someone) by not rewarding her for that type of play... ignore it or redirect her to safer kinds of playtime. But please, understand that is not vicious or "alpha" behavior or aggression, it's normal puppy play. Giving her more exercise will help curb that nipping too.

Scout in Canada

Posted : 12/1/2006 7:20:49 AM

I found when our pup was that age, "NO" was not effective for stopping biting. Instead, we would immediately YELP like a hurt puppy (make it sound like it really hurt, and you're terribly offended) and immediately stand up and walk away from the puppy. Turn away from her for at least 30 seconds.

This is basically you saying to the dog - "when you bite me, all the playing and fun ends".

You might see an improvement if your dad uses toys for playing rather than just wrestling. We don't often wrestle with our dog, I'd rather use a tug toy or fetch or something.

It would certainly help your family a ton to go to a puppy class (they have classes for 'adolescent dogs'. That way a trainer can see how your dog behaves and let you know where you're going wrong if anything.

spiritdogs

Posted : 12/1/2006 8:10:10 AM

Hate to tell you, but your dad has probably caused this to escalate. Playing rough and wrestling with a puppy can teach him that the humans in the family are his peers, and there for his amusement.
I think the whole family should take this dog to a good class, and learn how *not* to raise him to be mouthy. It sounds like he has not learned bite inhibition. When he puts his mouth on human skin, you should yelp and leave (go into the bathroom if you have to, and if he follows you biting your pant leg, gently squeeze him off you by shutting the door). A six month old Golden is already a big dog, and you need to get his behavior under control - nicely. Go to class! www.apdt.com or www.clickertraining.com have trainer listings for the US and Canada.

mudpuppy

Posted : 12/1/2006 9:23:08 AM

she's not being aggressive, she's playing. Going into puppy frenzies. You need to exercise and play with her more, in more appropriate ways.

The fact that she's drawing blood from play-bites at her age is a big problem. You may want to get a behaviorist in to help you.

houndlove

Posted : 12/1/2006 9:33:12 AM

Don't wrestle with your dog. Don't wrestle with your dog. Don't wrestle with your dog.

Dogs can and do wrestle with one another in play and they are just fine with it because they are much tougher than we are. My low-status dog bites the scruff of my high-status dog's neck all the time, and they both just love it more than anything (play-biting is not a "rank" thing, it's just fun). It doesn't hurt the dogs at all because they have so much fur and extra skin. I, on the other hand, do not.

Teaching your dog that it is okay to

lay like that with humans is a recipe for disaster. We made a big mistake in letting our dog Conrad wrestle and play rough with us and even though we stopped doing that eventually, he will still try to get us to play by using his teeth sometimes. Fortunately, it is only DH and us that he does this to, but it is still very dangerous and totally our fault. To communicate to him that this is no longer appropriate, I cross my arms close to my chest (to avoid him nipping at them) and turn away from him and ignore him until he comes around to my front and sits politely. Then he gets lots of petting and belly scratches and I will find another way to play with him that doesn't involve getting physical with a 95 lb. canine.

d_arl_90

Posted : 12/9/2006 11:04:16 PM

Yup, it's just a puppy thing! Don't encourage the behavior by wrestling. Puppies are young and playful. When my dog was young, she'd go absolutely crazy sometimes when we were playing outside. It was very scary sometimes. She'd get especially bad when it was snowing outside.

Basically what I'm saying is, it's not uncommon, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about it either. If you discourage the behavior, I promise you your pup will grow out of it! They tend to be roughest with the one they see as their "playmate".

Usually I would just act like I had been hurt, and she'd calm down and come see what was wrong, and then feel bad about the way she had acted. Give it a try next time it happens.

Good luck!

Audrey Low

Posted : 12/11/2006 10:32:01 PM

Good new is that if she were really being vicious, she wouldn't merely puncture the skin (you would need stitches). But pet Goldens are usually big - my rescued boy is less than 10 lbs lighter than me, so even play-bites can be nasty.

Your pup may benefit from a fun but structured activity. Obedience, tracking, agility (careful with those puppy bones), retrieving, freestyle, and exciting tricks are some examples. You can channel all that energy into constructive behaviours fairly easily.

I really did have a vicious Golden, and he's now a certified therapy dog. Within 3 months, he'd gone from being dangerous on a leash to completely reliable off-lead with a wide range of commands including speak, spin, find, fetch, close/open doors, pull a wheelchair, identify/retrieve canned food by scent, and all mushing commands. At the time, I was a young teenager and 10 lbs smaller than the dog, so I didn't use force, just positive leadership (both firm and fun). Forget the viciousness, and get started with the fun stuff!

Btw, alpha rolls are terrible, in my opinion. Instead, I taught my Golden the FUN trick of flopping onto his back (exactly the same position) on voice command or hand signal.

GOOD LUCK!!

spiritdogs

Posted : 12/12/2006 7:21:59 AM

Jeff, I missed the part where you said you needed to convince your dad - so perhaps you have already tried, and he didn't take you seriously. So, dad....several of the people who responded here are very experienced owners, and I am a professional trainer. Your son is correct. Don't wrestle with your puppy. [

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espencer

Posted : 12/12/2006 12:16:46 PM

If your dog cant do excersice you can estimulate his mind with some mental games, that would help a little bit to drain some extra energy she has

Daniel Davis

Posted : 12/15/2006 6:48:41 PM

ORIGINAL: jeffmm2
He is also very sympathetic towards the dog's feelings. The other day, he said that her biting is just a way of showing her affection. I've never of something so inane in my life.

In fact your dad seems wise to me. Depends on what kind of biting this is, but I guess it's not a violent act? Anyway, it's the owners responsibility to teach the dog to integrate with the rules and norms of society. Again, as always, I have to stress the importance of relationship between owner and dog - it's alpha omega.