Dog Community

Pulling / Crowding on walks

KCSO

Posted : 11/16/2006 3:46:11 PM

Disclaimer: This is long and whiny. I didn't know how much info was relevant. I'm going to email our teacher about this, but in the meantime I thought I'd see what all the forum experts think!

Jake has pulled on the leash from day 1. Not the "happy lab" style of perpetual pulling where he is always pulling... If I stop, he stops. He'll often take a step back toward me, often looks at me, sometimes even sits by me if I remain stopped. As soon as I start moving again he flies right to the end of the leash. He seems set on going 5% faster than I'm going (while on easywalk harness). If I have him on a flat collar its more like 15% faster and he chokes the whole time.

He is not trying to go hunt in the bushes. He acts very sled-doggish in that he usually aims right down the path and sets his shoulders and goes. Given his choice, he will walk directly in front of me. If I try to physically guide him to be next to me, he will crowd into me or pull/cut in front of me. If I do this too long, he will cut around behind me and try to pass me on the other side

We are clicker training and had our lesson in loose leash walking. Basically it involves rewarding them for the loose leash. When the dog pulls we are to change direction.

Now Jake will walk sidestepping in front of me. He basically body blocks so he can watch both my hands for the clicker or treats. When he does walk next to me, he crowds right into me. When he goes to the end of the leash and I change direction, he speeds to the end of the leash in the new direction. He doesn't even look at me to see where we're going, he just zooms til he gets tension in the leash.

I've tried the "make like a tree" approach for pulling before. (We never got off our property.) I've tried the "change direction" before with similar results as I'm getting now with the clicker added (he flings himself the new direction like its a game).

Our teacher says that dogs are aware of personal space. Jake has no issues plowing into my space, cutting me off, whatever. Is this relevant? Like is it a dominance issue?

What do I do with a dog in my way, or when he crowds into the side of me? Do I just keep going and let him get kneed/stepped on?

I've cut all our walks short today because it has been so frustrating. Before I had a sled dog, but now I have a bipolar dog that is alternately sled-dogging or else trying to kill me by pushing me, tripping me, or tangling me up in the leash while he runs laps around me in search of the clicker.

Xeph

Posted : 11/16/2006 6:35:37 PM

What do I do with a dog in my way, or when he crowds into the side of me? Do I just keep going and let him get kneed/stepped on?

Yup. He should get out of your way, not the other way around.

I suggest getting a longer lead and/or tying the dog's lead around your waist like a belt. Also, stuff cookies in several pockets, and always try and treat him from somewhere different, so he doesn't know which hand it's coming from.

Instead of changing and going the opposite direction, do a 360 and click him for staying in heel position as you continue on in your original direction. Turn into him and do left about turns. It will surprise him and make him say "I guess I should pay more attention!"

If you're always turning away from the dog, all he does is expect it, and there's no reason for him to pay attention.

Start over with loose leash walking and take one step at a time, literally. 1 step, click for loose leash. 1-2 steps, click for loose leash. Work up in one step increments. The moment he starts pulling, start back at just one step.

jones

Posted : 11/16/2006 9:44:02 PM

The first question that comes to my mind (and sorry if I should know this, I've been offline for a few weeks) is how old is your dog? As we all know, Labs are slower to mature than many breeds, and in my opinion some adolescent dogs (playful, high-energy types) are just not mature enough yet to walk nicely on leash. That's not to say that you can't/shouldn't walk them, but that you can be realistic about what he's capable of now, work on it, and expect progress as he gets older. I could be way off and you're dog is middle-aged... but I'm guessing if he's a young dog he's just not capable of that much self-control yet. It's sort of like trying to get three yr old children to crochet - most of them won't have the mental nor physical control to do such a task. Leash walking is not something that comes naturally to dogs, they're made to run ahead at their own pace and have to learn to walk in that slow, controlled pace.

I would say,

hysically tire him out in other ways as much as possible (fetch, swimming, running off leash, etc), and think of walks more as training exercise than physical exercise. Try to keep them to tolerable lengths where he can be 'successful' at it and end on a good note. Do more short walks rather than fewer long ones if at all possible. There's no sense in taking him out to practice bad habits... eventually he'll get it and you can walk for exercise too. [

]

KCSO

Posted : 11/16/2006 10:31:46 PM

Sorry Jones. I always seem to give too much or not enough info! Jake is a 2-3 year old brittany that we have had for a month or so (shelter dog).

I will definitely try your and Xeph's suggestions.

mudpuppy

Posted : 11/20/2006 1:23:37 PM

It seems to me that the "make like a tree" method would work fine with this dog, if you're just more patient. Right now you're making the common mistake of rewarding the dog for pulling (by letting the dog move forward when he pulls) so you can get your walk done. Plan on your first session to try to cover ten feet. And proceed from there.

neapolitanpitbull

Posted : 11/28/2006 9:13:25 PM

Never hurt your dog, meaning DO NOT knee him or anything like that.
On walks, stop everytime he pulls. He will get the idea that he does not get to continue his walk unless he has manners.

spiritdogs

Posted : 11/29/2006 7:13:48 AM

ORIGINAL: jones

The first question that comes to my mind (and sorry if I should know this, I've been offline for a few weeks) is how old is your dog? As we all know, Labs are slower to mature than many breeds, and in my opinion some adolescent dogs (playful, high-energy types) are just not mature enough yet to walk nicely on leash. That's not to say that you can't/shouldn't walk them, but that you can be realistic about what he's capable of now, work on it, and expect progress as he gets older. I could be way off and you're dog is middle-aged... but I'm guessing if he's a young dog he's just not capable of that much self-control yet. It's sort of like trying to get three yr old children to crochet - most of them won't have the mental nor physical control to do such a task. Leash walking is not something that comes naturally to dogs, they're made to run ahead at their own pace and have to learn to walk in that slow, controlled pace.

I would say, hysically tire him out in other ways as much as possible (fetch, swimming, running off leash, etc), and think of walks more as training exercise than physical exercise. Try to keep them to tolerable lengths where he can be 'successful' at it and end on a good note. Do more short walks rather than fewer long ones if at all possible. There's no sense in taking him out to practice bad habits... eventually he'll get it and you can walk for exercise too. []

jones, I'm glad you mentioned the immaturity issue, but it can also be a breed issue aside from or in conjunction with immaturity. It's one reason why the only behavior I have not taught Sequoyah yet is the heel. She's so drivey and "busy" that I have not wanted to do so until she has a modicum of self control in other situations.

The suggestion about turning into the dog is fine, but it takes some finesse to do if the handler is slight and the dog is large. I would start a dog like this with only one or two forward steps. I'd slowly build on that, a step or two at a time. But, on walks, I'd use a Gentle Leader, or an Easy Walk Harness. If the dog practices bad behavior 90% of the time by pulling, it's unrealistic to hope that he'll walk nicely on leash the other 10%, so preventing him from practicing usually requires the use of some management equipment. Pulling on lead is a tough behavior to stop, but it can be done - the key is patience and going slowly. One step at a time if necessary...

Alisia Jezierny

Posted : 11/29/2006 8:32:36 AM

Xeph's cookie suggestion is a good one, my dog is an insane puller, but we've had good results with the "be a tree" and "penalty yard" stuff, combined with keeping a treat by her nose and giving her little pieces of it when she's "walking nice". I also talk to her a lot, which keeps her looking up at me. I do NOT let her walk in front of me, I'll shorten the leash if she tries to pull ahead, and she only gets the treats when she's by my side with slack in the leash.

Now, here's another thing that I did last week, and I honestly can't believe it worked, and I'm still wondering if it DID work, or if the change that occured is just coincidence, but you could always try it for yourself:

We'd gone on a walk and she was tugging more than usual. We kept stopping and walking back and forth, and by the time 20 minutes had gone by, we'd only gone 2 blocks! Frustrated, I said, "That's it, you can't walk nice, we're going home!" I abruptly turned back the way we'd come... and she stopped tugging. So, I thought I'd try to continue on the walk. She started tugging again, and after another block, I DID go home. My boyfriend and I debated whether or not the dog actually understood that her walk ended early because she was tugging, and decided she couldn't possibly understand that... but ever since then (over a week now) she's barely tugged at all on her walks!! So who knows, maybe she DID get it!

shanmcd

Posted : 12/18/2006 8:04:34 PM

my suggestion would be to train using a head harness such as the gentle leader. It is humane and gentle for you and the dog. walking our beagle was an out of control puller for years and i tried EVERYTHING(chokers prongs harnesses). A behariorist/vet suggested the head harness and it changed the relationship i have the beagle for the better! I was hesitant at first (looks like a muzzle) but it was worth it...and it is a training device, so after only a few months we changed back to the leash....and success for years.

diane303

Posted : 12/19/2006 9:49:25 AM

I think that maturity does play a part in this as well, especially with sporting dogs. My setter was just so excited and "hell bent for leather" when she knew we were going on a walk that it was just impossible to expect a nice quiet walk from her. After she turned about 2 1/2 she began to pay attention and is now a joy to walk . My husband even walks her off leash and plays hide and seek with her *lol*. However, we still do a lot of zig zagging, stopping, changes of direction and 360s when we get out there just to make it interesting, especially when walking Grace too (more of a steam roller type puller). My nieghbors think it's really funny! Treats were no match for for all the interesting stuff out there.

You've only had her for a month so you've got a ways to go before she is completely settled with you. Just keep up the work and make your walks consistant and challenging.