Lost motivation *help please*

    • Gold Top Dog

    Lost motivation *help please*

    *Edit: more info* She is an 8 yr old Australian Shepherd. We recently (3 months ago) had to PTS our other Aussie but just got Gromit (a 6 monthish mutt a month ago)*
    Zoe has recently lost ALL motivation what so ever. She had gotten really bad listening wise recently with the addition of Gromit and so we have been doing more training.

    First I tried cheese and her E-collar, so I could reinforce those cues, and after a minute or two she just went completely mute to whatever I did, and was more interested in Gromit. I checked the fit of her collar and that the battery was still on, and it was. (Maybe the collar was not picking up the signal?).

    I ended it after we had some response.

    She used to be lightning fast on her commands. Now she won't do them unless they are enforced (hand on her rump or shoulders (not pushing just there)).


    I tried again tonight with Salami, and she maybe paid attention for 5 minutes, but was having difficulty. I was working on looking at me when she heeled, but having her stand/sit next to me and I would say heel and give her the treat when she looked at me.

    Once again she just tuned out, and so I tried to end it on an easy note and sat next to her so she would barely have to move her eyes (that were following my treat) and look at/near me. As soon as she got near my though she would swallow and look away.

    Is this a dominance issue?

    I was thinking of just doing *short* training sessions (30 secs at first!) and then building back up, but I'm confused at the sudden change in her. She doesn't really care that much about us (but still does) but is obsessed with Gromit. She had gotten better recently, as in coming to get pats when before she just only wanted to be with Gromit.

    I need help! She isn't toy motivated, semi praise.

    Before I used to play with her, but with Gromit (and they play all day long and rough...so my play I guess is boring) that doesn't work anymore!!!


    Thanks for reading!
    • Gold Top Dog
    If you are talking about an electric collar I have seen a number of dogs shut down.  It appears as if they would prefer to do nothing than risk a correction.  Dog behavior occurs because it meets the needs of the animal.  In this case, changing the behavior of the person is more likely to result in establishing the behaviors you desire. 

    Changing the words you use,  starting as if the dog knows nothing and using high quality reenforcers for behaviors that are already "known" may help.  In practically all training exercises, if the dog is not being successful, reduce the demand by changing the criteria.  Make sure you are seperating the dogs periodically including during any training time.  They need to be out of sight of each other.

    Other strategies that might support behavior change would be TTouch, hands on time, play, low demand walks.  It may also be appropriate to have a vet check, just in case there is a physical issue impacting performance. 

    As to her lack of interest, play with her, spend time with her and work on finding out what interests her.  Shortening the training time to leave her wanting more is a good strategy.

    Hand feeding her all or a protion of her meal may help too.
    • Puppy
    That is some really good advice from MRV!
     
    Can you more clearly explain how you are using the shock collar in combination with the rewards?  There are a bunch of ways to train on a shock collar...some cause shut downs much more frequently than others.  What behaviors are you trying to prompt?  What commands is she shutting down on?  How much exercise does she get?  What are you feeding her?  What is her dialy regimine?  Is she crate trained?  How much time is spent in the crate? How much time is spent with the other dog?  Do you train them seperately or together most frequently?
     
    Fill us in!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you MRV, very good ideas and tips.

    kptherapist...I'll try and answer all of your questions!

    The way I used the shock collar was I would give a command (sit) and press the continuous button (on level one) and it would go off as soon as she sat. The manuel that came with it suggested starting the signal beforehand, but I opted not to do this since she knew the command. I taught/reinforced heel, sit and listening whilst off leash. She was doing really well and had finally understood what I wanted on heel, but then she started (I think) to do what you described when we were training vs. out on a hike and I was correcting her.

    She currently runs around all day long with our other dog, and gets a walk 4-5 times a week. She is in pretty good shape and actually could use a couple more pounds. She eats Avoderm adult (duck and something else).

    Her daily regimine is...get woken up at about 7-7:30 and let outside to go potty and hang out.

    At approx 8-8:30 she gets fed (and has to wait for us to tell her to eat) and then she goes back outside to play with Gromit while my Dad usually reads the paper for an hour or two.

    At lunch they come back in (for Gromit's lunch) and hang out for awhile.  Usually I will get home in an hour or two 2:00ish from work or whatever I was doing in the morning and I will play with them and hang out until 5 when I have soccer.

    My sister plays with them and my Dad will usually hang out with them outside.

    She is not crate trained, only Gromit has a crate. We did not know about the benefits of crate training when we had Zoe, and my parents do not see the benefit in having her live in a crate (even though it is working really well for Gromit)

    She spends almost all of her other time with Gromit (6-7 month puppy mutt). Usually they are trained separately, either with Gromit in eyesight or completely separated (having my sister hold him while I train in the front yard, or him being inside/backyard while I train).

    Thanks![:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    The way I used the shock collar was I would give a command (sit) and press the continuous button (on level one) and it would go off as soon as she sat. The manuel that came with it suggested starting the signal beforehand, but I opted not to do this since she knew the command. I taught/reinforced heel, sit and listening whilst off leash.

     
     
    I would recommend using your ecollar in a different way than described. You are describing "escape training" which is a rather unfair method of training-- basically the dog is punished every time you give a command. Not surprisingly it can be very demotivating to the dog. Most folks try to rapidly move past the "escape training" part of training, or nowadays avoid it altogether, and instead use the ecollar as a correction for non-compliance only. Thus, you say "sit". If the dog sits, you reward (praise, food, toys). If the dog doesn't sit, then you issue a verbal correction (uh oh) at the same time as you stim the dog with the ecollar. When the dog sits, you reward. Frankly, if you find yourself correcting often, you need to go back several steps in your training, you've moved on too fast.
     
    I think the big problem here is that Gromit is fun, and being trained solely with an ecollar is not. You need to make yourself more fun, and get out the rewards, and be silly with your dog, and play with your dog, and take your dog on solo walks with you, and stop relying on corrections so much.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I forgot to say...negligent, I know, that I phase out the correction if she complys. So if she's obeying she doens't get stimulated. Maybe I'll try the uh oh though. That would make a big difference. I've stopped using the collar, and have been going back to the basics but she just isn't quite as excited. We just need to work on it though.

    Thanks mudpuppy.