What Contact Training Method Do You Use???

2o2o
 
Why? Several reasons:  Because I think that the criteria is very clear to the dog and to me and it's easy for me to be consistent about it.  Because I've now taught it to 3 dogs and have been very succesful with it. 
 
My first dog was taught a 4 feet on contact and I ended up with him creeping a bit, then I did 2o2o with him.  Unfortunately, he died after 1 season of trialing so I don't know how he'd have ended up.  With my next 3 I've done 2o2o and with the last 2 I've also backchained to the 2o2o position which I like a lot.
 
I haven't been able to wrap my head around 1rto and I have a friend who's having trouble with it.  I'm just not clear on how to teach it and I'm not unhappy with the way I've taught 2o2o so I haven't really tried too hard to understand it.
 
My dogs are too fast and I'm too slow to even want to attempt teaching a running contact.
 
As I've learned more and more in the 8 years I've been doing agility (yikes!) I've changed the way I've taught things but 2o2o is something I'm sticking with (though I've changed the way I teach it).
 
Good luck with whatever you choose.  I think any method can be successful as long as you are totally and absolutely consistent, which is really hard to do sometimes especially with your first dog!
 
Sorry...this is a little long winded!!!

I've tried several methods, and I like 2o2o for larger dogs definitely. Same reasons as agilebcs, very clear to the dog, easy for them to understand, etc.
 
But I have small dogs. A-frame 2o2o for my 12.5" tall JRT who is very petitely built is like splitting her in half. I don't like it for her. She does runnings. She was started with a 2o2o, and then I progressed to just releasing her before she got her 2o2o for a running contact. Since the 2o2o used a target, she still went to the bottom and had a cue for it already, so I just started giving the cue, releasing, and kept running with her. Unfortunately, I've sacrificed some accuracy for speed. At trials she will blow the occasional contact because of stress. I just have to be careful in the way I run her. I was never serious about agility until really the past 8 or 9 months, so I never proofed anything, never really had goals. Now that I do, I have to retrain a lot of stuff.
 
My other JRT does 2o2o. He's almost 14" and quite a big guy, so it's not as much of a physical issue. Also, Rascal needs very defined boundaries. We call him the silly little wooden head, and my instructor often asks, "Is Rascal going to stay on planet earth tonight?" just because he's a little spacey. So the 2o2o works because he knows EXACTLY what I want. Also, I've started proofing him to stay until released and make it more solid. It's working well so far. He competes for the first time with contacts (he's done jumpers before) on the 29th of April, after training for about 16 months or so. He's doing well.
 
Anyone ever used hoops to train running contacts? I'd like to use them to reinforce my girl's runnings, but I've never done it. Do they work?
 
 

 I am teaching 2o2o with my JRT. He is only 1.5 years old so we are not really competing yet. With Dasher I don't think I could initally train the running contact. My previous dog was a Dal and he pretty much had running contacts although I think it was by accident! [8D] I have been doing agility for about 9 years and Dasher is my 2nd dog and so far I really like this method.  When I was training my Dal we didn't really teach 2o2o, just to "go bottom."  Not real clear when I look back, the 2o2o seems pretty clear and easy for my dog to understand.  Dasher is super fast and has springs for legs so he was one to leap off mid A-frame and take off running. I have gotten a "contact trainer" that I use at home and love it. On the A-frame side of the trainer he will usually just plant his butt on the yellow and have two front feet on the grass. I wanted to teach him 2o2o so that he understands what is expected from the contact obstacles, i.e. to touch the yellow and not leap off. Eventually when Dasher and I compete I will not always ask him to stop at the bottom but hopefully what I have accomplished is to teach him to get to the bottom without jumping off. I also like the 2o2o method because if gives me the oppurtunity to do a front cross should I ever need to. There is no way I will beat Dasher anywhere on the course.  So if he was on the dog walk and I needed to cross in front and he was ahead of me I will hopefully be able to tell him to "wait" at the bottom if needed. Not sure if I would have that option with a running contact. I also like the 2o2o method b/c it will (eventually) allow me to not have to babysit the obstacle and work at a distance. I will be able to send him and say "target" (which means bottom or 2o2o) and I will know he knows what to do and I can pick him up on the other side.

I do think that every dog is different and whatever works best for you as a team is what you should go with.

bamaeskie- I would try several different methods to see which works best for you and Dakota

bamaeskie- I would try several different methods to see which works best for you and Dakota

ORIGINAL: dasher

 I disagree with this.  I think you'll waste a whole lot of time and also confuse the dog if you try different methods. 
 
Truly, you've got 2 choices: running contact or some sort of contact where your dog stops.  I think it's very difficult to teach a truly reliable running contact and I think it takes an experienced trainer to do it.   If you choose to go that way Bamaeskie, then I would find a trainer that knows how to teach them correctly because it's a lot more involved than just having your dog run thru the contact zone.  If you want a dog that stops at the end of the contact then pick one method and stick with it because if you're consistent in your training you'll be successful with it. 
 
Someone mentioned a contact trainer which would be a great piece of equipment to have.  It's basically a shrunken down a-frame that looks like an a-frame on one side and on the other side looks like a dog walk.  I trained my last 2 dogs on one and I love it.  I also used it to re-train another dog that have nice 2o2o contacts until I started to randomly release him early - then I ended up with a dog that either crept down or leaped off.  Bad move on my part and he's back to really reliable contacts.

Sorry, I totally screwed up the quote thing in my post.  The top is from Dasher's message and the bottom is what I wrote.
 
Can someone tell me how to correctly quote from someone else's post??

ORIGINAL: agilebcs

I disagree with this.  I think you'll waste a whole lot of time and also confuse the dog if you try different methods. 

Truly, you've got 2 choices: running contact or some sort of contact where your dog stops.  I think it's very difficult to teach a truly reliable running contact and I think it takes an experienced trainer to do it.   If you choose to go that way Bamaeskie, then I would find a trainer that knows how to teach them correctly because it's a lot more involved than just having your dog run thru the contact zone. 

You make a good point agilebcs, I think that could be confusing to a dog to try and teach contacts one way then switch.  I know when I picked a method I stuck to it and was consistant.  I also agree that running contacts should be taught by someone who really knows how to teach them.  From everything that I have seen about them its a pretty precise movement. 

I am the one who has the contact trainer.  Can't say enough good things about it.  Another good way to begin teaching 2o2o if you don't have a contact trainer or a contact obstacle is with just a board on the ground.  I know a lot of my friends have started with just a board and have had great results. 

Clean Run had a wonderful issue dedicated to training contacts.  I think it would be worth seeing if you could order that issue.  For a very small dog, most breeds in the toy group, I don't know if I'd teach a 2o2o.  Of course this also depends on how fast the handler is.  My basenjis don't do a 2o2o, but if they are really wild I can give them an "easy" to slow them down just a bit and they will get the contact.  Usually I can keep up with my boys and can give them body cues in order to ensure getting the contact if I feel it is needed.  However, I would NOT suggest someone else trying this.  It is rather hap-hazard and I might would retrain if things were different.
 
We're using a 2o2o with the malinois.  She's just starting, is larger and has a bigger stride.
 
 

I've seen a lot of dogs have a great deal of trouble physically getting into or holding a 2o2o position, especially on the A frame, and can't recommend it. I trained my own dog to do beautiful rock-solid 2o2o contacts, and when we transfered the behavior to the full height A frame, whoops, the only way she could stop in that position on the bottom was to crawl painfully slowly down the ramp. Two other dogs in the class had similar problems. So we had to re-train. I would suggest the four-on-the-floor method, which is what I switched my dog to. Any dog of any shape/size can do it without losing speed on the down ramp or having to hold a physically difficult position like the 2o2o.