Low-protein dog food

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

your puppy will not do fine on a low protein food. Lots of studies have been done, and dogs, particularly puppies, need 30% protein to remain in optimal health. Dogs fed lower levels of protein, such as are commonly found in most commercial dog foods, have poor muscle development and are prone to injury.
Your pointer developed HOD because you were feeding rich puppy food that caused too rapid growth and probably had way too much calcium in it.  The idea that high protein causes bone disorders in growing puppies has been studied and discredited.
Diet has nothing to do with struvite crystals. Your dog developed a urinary infection, which causes the urine pH to go up, which allows crystals to form. You treat the infection with antibiotics, and then acidify the urine to help the crystals dissolve and wash out. There is no need or benefit to feeding a special diet. Vitamin C is a very cheap, safe, and effective way to acidify the urine.

Sorry Mudpuppy, but from my expirience with a cat with struvite crystals, diet change is very important.  Urinary crystals or any type of UTI can lead to kidney failure.  Hmm. kidney failure or low muscle mass?  Whether dog or cat, the animal should at least be given a diet with more moisture whether it's canned or home cooked.  I agree, it doesn't have to be a perscription diet, but a diet change.  Struvite crytals are caused by too much PH in the dog/cat's urine, in other words their urine is to alkaline.  As far as studies go, some nutritionalists say lower protien, some say it doesn't matter, but a diet change to a food with more moisture is necessary.

My cat was in bad condition when I adopted her with UTI problems.  I did alot of research and held off kidney failure for 4 years before she died.

Lowered protein doesn't have to mean lower muscle mass. My dogs get pretty low protein (8-10%, wet) and their muscle mass is fantastic. They're both in incredible body condition. Emma's left rear leg is slightly atrophied, but that has absolutely nothing to do with her diet.

For Em's constant UTIs, I keep cranberry pills, and D-Mannose. Cranberry pills are for upkeep, D-Mannose is for treatment (the stuff is expensive, but it WORKS, I took it for a kidney infection before I ever tried it on the dog). If you want to try the D-Mannose, don't waste your money on the pills. Get the powder.

Lowered protein doesn't have to mean lower muscle mass. My dogs get pretty low protein (8-10%, wet) and their muscle mass is fantastic. They're both in incredible body condition

 
 On a dry matter basis your dogs are probably getting over 30% protein from their food;
         [linkhttp://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html]http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html[/link]

your puppy will not do fine on a low protein food. Lots of studies have been done, and dogs, particularly puppies, need 30% protein to remain in optimal health.

 
Callie had a dog that lived for 19 years on a homecooked diet of 19% protein; a low protein diet was necessary because of the dog's medical condition. The OP's dog has a serious medical condition and we shouldn't frighten her unnecessarily into making a decision that may not be right for her dog.

On a dry matter basis your dogs are probably getting over 30% protein from their food;
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html

Maybe. I can't remember how I figured it out, but I think it was a little lower than what most premium canned foods have. I use 1:3 ratio for meat to veggies. I've been told by a nutritionist that I need to use at least half meat, and a lot of folks believe that they need more than that. Emma absolutely cannot process more than 33% meat, and Teenie doesn't need it, either, at her age and activity level.

I don't know if someone already said this, but make sure... When you're checking protein levels, usually what's on the bag is as served NOT as fed. As fed is higher.  Call the company to make sure before feeding.

I've also read that 23% is optimum and that too much protein in the young puppies diet in very concentrated food can cause growth that is too aggressive.  Some Dane owners over load their puppies trying to get them to the required height for conformation showing at 6 mos. of age.  Found to be too tall for actually healthy developement. 
 
Actually, if you think about it, the percentage of protein is less important than if your puppy is getting enough protein. You don't want the growth to be too fast. My setter, who was on 19% protein after her HOD opisode, had absolutely beautiful muscle tone, and actually it has never been established that her diet caused the H.O.D. in the first place. 
 
Yes a UTI will cause high PH and Struvite crystals.  My pointer (by the way, who didn't have HOD) had no bacteria in her urine to indicate that she had a UTI. It is my experience and the experience of others that diet ,lower ph water (distilled or purified) and cranberry capsules to be helpful and that some dogs just do have a tendency toward high ph and struvite crystals.  I have also been told by several sources that vitamin C is questionable because dogs produce their own vitamin C.  Even estherC, a vitamin C that will stay in the body longer, has been questionable. 

Just my personal opinion, but I've had such incredible results with i/d for Willow's issues,  that I say if your vet wants you to stay on it, stay on it.  I'd try to get the canned, they tend to not have the chemical preservatives and as much junk as the kibble. 
 
That said, Willow had several UTI's and also had struvite crystals and they took care of them with an extended and higher dose of antibiotics, she took 3 pills a day for 30 days.  After she finished they retested her then and then again in 3 and 6 months.  It's been over a year, not one recurrence.  And, this is from her having ER visits and everthing, she had been getting seriously ill with them 3 and 4 times per year.  And, they never put her on a special diet at all for them.  Also, I'd strongly recommend staying away from Wellness brand with this problem. 

ORIGINAL: 3guysandagirl

I don't know if someone already said this, but make sure... When you're checking protein levels, usually what's on the bag is as served NOT as fed. As fed is higher.  Call the company to make sure before feeding.

I thought what was on the bag was as fed, and dry matter basis was higher.

Can anyone clarify?