menadione

People need to feel comfortable feeding whatever they want, my personal opinion is that it is much to do about nothing. Keep in mind that zinc, copper, manganese vitamin A, vitamin D and several other minerals and vitamins, are all toxic to dogs, so I don't think it is a huge surprise that vitamin K3 can also be toxic. The dosage is the key! I think when it comes to dog food there is too much of the "Sky is Falling".

Have you even bothered to read the anti-menadione stuff? Because it seems like you're just talking out your..behind. The problem with menadione is not too much vitamin K, but the actual substance itself. NOT the vitamin K, but the synthetic version, menadione.

Have you even bothered to read the anti-menadione stuff? Because it seems like you're just talking out your..behind. The problem with menadione is not too much vitamin K, but the actual substance itself. NOT the vitamin K, but the synthetic version, menadione.

 
Wow,,,,no need for this kind of talk in a friendly forum!  What the heck,,, its kind of disheartening to open up your email and read this kind of talk!  Even if its NOT directed at you!

Wow,,,,no need for this kind of talk in a friendly forum! What the heck,,, its kind of disheartening to open up your email and read this kind of talk! Even if its NOT directed at you!

 
You're right Dyan, I was a little nastier than necessary, but I found it rather irritating for someone to come in saying that people who worry about menadione are acting like Chicken Little, and talking about toxicity of vitamin K, when that has nothing to do with why menadione is dangerous. If he read the article posted that talks about menadione, or anything else on the subject, he should know that vitamin K and menadione are not the same thing.

Like everybody says all the time, for every article you can find in YOUR favor, somebody else will have the Devil's Advocate article.  I personally dont worry about menadione or ethoxyquin.  The doses are small, and not enough for me to chuck out a high quality food simply because one or both of those ingredients is in the food.
 
The companies that removed menadione did it to improve their bottom line, not because they really cared that the menadione was in there.  People complain about menadione, they remove it, so their sales go up.  It's business driven, not "we care" driven.
 
Ethoxyquin is a fish preservative that is require by law to be added to fish products that will be shipped.  Strauss usually eats a fish and potato diet, as the fish keeps his coat up and his skin from flaking.  I give him fish oil to help his coat.  Am I concerned about the ethoxyquin?  Not really.  Am I concerned about the Menadione?  Again, not really.  Not enough to take him off his feed.

Like everybody says all the time, for every article you can find in YOUR favor, somebody else will have the Devil's Advocate article

 
Ain't that the truth.  I have seen it over and over.

I personally dont worry about menadione or ethoxyquin. The doses are small, and not enough for me to chuck out a high quality food simply because one or both of those ingredients is in the food.

I dont know of any "High" quality foods that use ethoxiquin,this preservative which is banned in many countries is usually found in the low end foods,ones that i wouldnt feed anyway,no matter what preservatives they used!

As for menadione,it doesnt really bother me per say,however we are lucky enough to have loads of other foods to choose from that dont have it added.True, it is in foods in small doses,but i have to wonder how much those small doses would build up in the dogs system over time,and what possible damage this would do.Until someone can answer this question i'll probably steer clear,better to be safe than sorry.Like i said plenty of other choices out there []

The bottom line for me is that if something has a health question mark or any major negativity attached to it i wont feed it to my pets.Once again i am not willing to take the chance and gamble with my pets health and hope that these"ingredients,preservatives,by-products" or whatever will do damage in the long run,or not.

ORIGINAL: Xeph

Ethoxyquin is a fish preservative that is require by law to be added to fish products that will be shipped.

True, but companies can get a permit to use other preservatives, and it's only fish meal that is shipped by ocean going vessel that has to be preserved with it. There are several companies that don't use it.

First of all the FDA only regulates HUMAN food... NOT petfoods. Petfoods are completely UNREGULATED by any government agency and AAFCO is a self-regulatory entity and they approve MANY ingredients that are unhealthy.  I've read many of your posts and most of the time you have NO clue what you're talking about.   Just one example being that you have NO idea what the difference is between by-products used in cheap petfoods and GENUINE HEALTHY by-products which consist of only ORGAN MEATS ...ie heart, lungs, tripe, kidney, liver and sweetbreads ). These are NOT the by-products Purina, Hills, SD, etc use in their foods.  These are two distinctly different products that incorrectly go by the same name.... the FORMER being whatever WASTE product is left for rendering after slaughter... including HAIR, HOOFS, BEAKS, FEET, HEADS,,  DIGEST, TALLOW,  etc.  THOSE are the by-products of cheap dogfoods.

Also Menadione and Menadione Sodium Bisulfate  are NOT the same.  There are numerous forms of menadione.  There are no "two sides of the story" when it comes to the use of MSB in petfoods.  Just because the major studies are European (German ) doesn't make the information any less important or valuable. You have to realize that the US is FAR behind the European Union and other countries when it comes to chemicals and pharmaceuticals. We may as well still be in the stone age in comparison. They are extremely advanced in these areas.
NATURAL vitamin K is FAT soluble  while menadione derivatives are WATER soluble and bypass the natural pathway of utilization by the body. It is added as an inexpensive supplement in commercial foods.  It is a completely UNNECESSARY ingredient and there is no demonstrated dietary requirement for Vitamin K in dogs. Better sources of Vitamin K, however are found in fish meals, liver and green plant supplements such as alfalfa, kelp, seaweed, spirulina, nettle leaf and blue-green algae.

Face it.... BHA, BHT, Ethoxyquin and Propyl Gallate are also 'approved' additives.  And KNOWN CARCINOGENS. Do you want your dog eating those  ?? The FDA even approves them for HUMAN consumption... they're found in almost ALL dry cereals and many other foods. And  do you really have to question why so many people are dying of cancer, getting tumors and other serious medical problems at such young ages ??  Even HUMAN food is killing us. And you doubt that commercial dogfood is harmful ?  Geez... wake up and get a grip on reality.

 

Just one example being that you have NO idea what the difference is between by-products used in cheap petfoods and GENUINE HEALTHY by-products which consist of only ORGAN MEATS ...ie heart, lungs, tripe, kidney, liver and sweetbreads ). These are NOT the by-products Purina, Hills, SD, etc use in their foods.  These are two distinctly different products that incorrectly go by the same name.... the FORMER being whatever WASTE product is left for rendering after slaughter... including HAIR, HOOFS, BEAKS, FEET, HEADS,,  DIGEST, TALLOW,  etc.  THOSE are the by-products of cheap dogfoods.

 
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and how do you know this?? Because the food company that sells your food told you this?

There are no "two sides of the story" when it comes to the use of MSB in petfoods.

 
Dr. Wysong who is a vet, and has been doing research in animal nutrition for over 20 years, has no problem with MSB, and niether do other manufacturers, nor AAFCO or the NRC, not sure how that is not 2 sides.
 

Just because the major studies are European (German ) doesn't make the information any less important or valuable.

 
How do we know this is a major study, all I have seen are quotes taken out of context, has anyone seen this major study and read the entire thing, can someone please tell me how the MSB was administered and what the dosage was, what types of animals it was administered too. Again, in the right dosage, most vitamins and minerals are toxic.
 

BHA, BHT, Ethoxyquin and Propyl Gallate are also 'approved' additives.  And KNOWN CARCINOGENS.

 
Meat is a known carcinogen, Sun is a known carcinogen, Alcohol is a known carcinogen, numerous things in excess are carcinogens. There are also numerous studies that support BHA and BHT, and MSB as potent anti carcinogens. What to feed is a personal decision and there is no right or wrong answer. I personally believe everything in moderation.
 
 
ACSH warns of naturally occurring carcinogens in food - News Briefs… - American Council on Science and Health
 


The American Council on Science and Health (ACSH) once again has analyzed the foods that make up a traditional holiday dinner, and once again has found that they are loaded with "carcinogens"--chemicals that in large doses cause cancer in laboratory animals. However, none of these chemicals are manufactured or added to the foods, but occur naturally. The good news, according to ACSH scientists: these natural carcinogens pose no hazard to human health.
Much of the concern about the health effects of chemicals stems from the overly broad application of the now-repealed Delaney clause to the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, says ACSH. The Delaney clause originally banned from American foods any artificial substance, whether pesticide residue or food additive, that could be shown to cause cancer in lab animals, no matter how minuscule the amount found in the foods or how high the dose given to the animals.
If the Delaney clause had applied to food, and not just to additives, banned from the table would be: cream of mushroom soup, carrots, cherry tomatoes, celery, tossed lettuce and arugula salad with basil-mustard vinaigrette, roast turkey and stuffing, cranberry sauce, prime rib of beef, broccoli, baked potato, sweet potato, rolls with butter, pumpkin pie, apple pie, fresh apples, grapes, mangos, pears and pineapple, wine, coffee, tea and roasted mixed nuts.

First of all the FDA only regulates HUMAN food... NOT petfoods. Petfoods are completely UNREGULATED by any government agency and AAFCO is a self-regulatory entity and they approve MANY ingredients that are unhealthy. I've read many of your posts and most of the time you have NO clue what you're talking about. Just one example being that you have NO idea what the difference is between by-products used in cheap petfoods and GENUINE HEALTHY by-products which consist of only ORGAN MEATS ...ie heart, lungs, tripe, kidney, liver and sweetbreads ). These are NOT the by-products Purina, Hills, SD, etc use in their foods. These are two distinctly different products that incorrectly go by the same name.... the FORMER being whatever WASTE product is left for rendering after slaughter... including HAIR, HOOFS, BEAKS, FEET, HEADS,, DIGEST, TALLOW, etc. THOSE are the by-products of cheap dogfoods.

 
And Jews, Gypsies, etc were worthless and deserved to die and only the superior race, the Germans should live and rule the world---according to the book Hitler published and it was believed by many, but because it was written and published, did that make it true?  HECK NO. 
 
 And as far as it goes,  As far as I an comcerned if you are not there to SEE what is put into the dog foods, any brand, then you really can not know what is put them.  You only go by what you read and how do you know what you read is correct?    Ever listen to politians go at each other?  How do you kow the dog food companies don't spread these stories therm selves to try to discredit others.  You don't know.

Just because the major studies are European (German ) doesn't make the information any less important or valuable. You have to realize that the US is FAR behind the European Union and other countries when it comes to chemicals and pharmaceuticals. We may as well still be in the stone age in comparison. They are extremely advanced in these areas.

 
One of the things I have learned also about other countries though,,, especially about drugs and adverse reactions, that they have different ways of reporting them. And different rules as to how they can report them and to whom.  In the end,,many of these countries have no way of getting across to the US or even to themselves  what is really happening.   I am not sure the I am interested in a lot of studies done in those countries.

As far as the usual lumping together of all Purina product-  They do not use feathers, hoofs, beaks etc as the by products in Pro Plan or Purina One.  I have no clue about Dog Chow so I will not speak for that.  It is organ meat and natural sources of glucosamine.  This debate is fruitless just as many of them on here are.  I totally agree that if we look closer at everything in life, we will find a problem with it.  Moderation is the key to all good things in life and even the bad ones.  Feed whatever floats your boat.  I don't think anyone here is anything less than a devoted, loving pet owner who wants a good life for their families and their animals.  I do feel some get a bit over-zealous about certain issues.  Well meaning as they maybe.

First of all the FDA only regulates HUMAN food... NOT petfoods. Petfoods are completely UNREGULATED by any government agency and AAFCO is a self-regulatory entity and they approve MANY ingredients that are unhealthy. I've read many of your posts and most of the time you have NO clue what you're talking about.

 
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.
 

The FDA is charged with the enforcement of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act.) Under the Act, a part of FDA's responsibility is to ensure that human and animal foods are safe and properly labeled. Within FDA, the Center for Veterinary Medicine is responsible for the regulation of animal drugs, medicated feeds, food additives and feed ingredients. The regulations based, in part, on this law are found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21,

Food and Drugs, Part 500.

 

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

 
Because sometimes you just have to.  Others looking on that don't know any better, must learn the truth,,,not just what some people perceive to be the truth.