AKC Rally 2012 - New Rules

miranadobe

For those training for Excellent level, how are you planning on training the Send to Jump?  I get the impression the handler cannot stop forward progress, but needs to teach a fast enough send to jump, and call to heel so the dog executes and returns while the handler keeps moving, but before they pass the jump.  Sounds like a timing concern.  How are you planning on training for it?...

From Curt Curtis at the AKC (I did the bolding):

Thanks for that info - where was that posted?  I have to be a jerk here - one would think if the Regulations had been properly written, folks would not have to ask such questions for clarification.  I appreciate that they're trying to make it harder, and I especially appreciate for all those turkeys who don't even bother trying a back-up and take the 10 point deduction, that they won't be able to anymore - NQ!!  No more luring and begging and fake food handling, either - YAAAY!

micksmom

We've also decided having the dog do a right/around finish will be easier than a left/flip.

Can't you just call him straight into heel position without the front first?

I don't think it's posted anywhere.  Soon after the regs were voted on, clubs, groups, etc were asked to gather questions and email Mr Curtis.  That was the part of his reply about the Send To Jump. 

miranadobe

micksmom

We've also decided having the dog do a right/around finish will be easier than a left/flip.

Can't you just call him straight into heel position without the front first? 

Oh, definitely- there is no front on that excercise.  What I meant was we found it more fluid to have the dog get into heel position by going around behind you.  Of course, since they are allowed to back jump, you could have them do that then come up from your left.  I just don't know many people who want to encourage their dogs to come back over the jump.

I talked with three different judges at Cher's last trial about the send to jump. All three indicated, to me, handlers would be allowed to slow down or stop if need be so that they would not pass the jump before the dog was back in heel position. That said, all three complained that the AKC hadn't done much to help clarify the rule changes, so they could all be totally wrong. Two candidly said that they were hopeful that the AKC would put out a video, much like their Beginner's Novice one, to give everyone, judges & exhibitors alike, a better idea of what is expected.

Cher & I have played with it some, & for her, the easiest way has been to send her over the jump, then turn her back to the left to go the long way around the jump, then she can come right back into heel position. I'm not sure that this is an allowable thing, but it's the safest way for her to do the station. I was a bit worried about how much longer it would take sending her the long way around but, after timing her, I'm fairly confident that the extra 0.6 seconds that it takes to get back to heel isn't that big of a deal. She's a very quick dog, so we can make up that time elsewhere on the course.

While I love that the AKC is making rally more challenging, I hate this sign. It hasn't been explained to anyone worth a flip, & it's a huge space sucker in an already crowded ring.

I'm also amused that the new regs start on a Sunday. I'm actually searching for a trial on the weekend of March 31/April 1 because I want to run one day with old regs & the next with the new ones. Unless Cher has a huge brain fart, she'll definitely be, at the least, in excellent, at best, running both advanced & excellent. I really hope that show superintendents are prepared & can make all of the necessary changes overnight.

BEVOLASVEGAS

I talked with three different judges at Cher's last trial about the send to jump. All three indicated, to me, handlers would be allowed to slow down or stop if need be so that they would not pass the jump before the dog was back in heel position. That said, all three complained that the AKC hadn't done much to help clarify the rule changes, so they could all be totally wrong. Two candidly said that they were hopeful that the AKC would put out a video, much like their Beginner's Novice one, to give everyone, judges & exhibitors alike, a better idea of what is expected.

Cher & I have played with it some, & for her, the easiest way has been to send her over the jump, then turn her back to the left to go the long way around the jump, then she can come right back into heel position. I'm not sure that this is an allowable thing, but it's the safest way for her to do the station. I was a bit worried about how much longer it would take sending her the long way around but, after timing her, I'm fairly confident that the extra 0.6 seconds that it takes to get back to heel isn't that big of a deal. She's a very quick dog, so we can make up that time elsewhere on the course.

While I love that the AKC is making rally more challenging, I hate this sign. It hasn't been explained to anyone worth a flip, & it's a huge space sucker in an already crowded ring.

I'm also amused that the new regs start on a Sunday. I'm actually searching for a trial on the weekend of March 31/April 1 because I want to run one day with old regs & the next with the new ones. Unless Cher has a huge brain fart, she'll definitely be, at the least, in excellent, at best, running both advanced & excellent. I really hope that show superintendents are prepared & can make all of the necessary changes overnight.

A few people on the Rally list have aked about a video, too. 

There are so many complaints about that dang sign- safety of the dogs, handler not passing the jump, and, from judges- all the space it takes up.  I have heard of at least 3 judges who said they won't use it.   Because of that, I predict the next change the AKC makes will be requiring it.

Someone on the Rally list pointed out that April 1st is on a Sunday.  That's a huge PITA for clubs holding trials both days- they'll need to have 2 sets of signs, and , hopefully, the judges won't get confused and judge under the current regs.  Let alone the confusion for exhibitors, especially anyone in Novice A.  I don't think the AKC actually looked at a calendar when they picked the date- just picked the first of a month.  Of course, they didn't put much thought into the Send To Jump, either, did they?  LOL

I like they way you and Cher have worked the jump.  It sounds "legal" to me since the dog can return to heel by going around the jump.

BEVOLASVEGAS

Two candidly said that they were hopeful that the AKC would put out a video,

A friend emailed Rally@AKC a few weeks ago, and received this from Janice Sondys at AKC:

micksmom

I just don't know many people who want to encourage their dogs to come back over the jump.

Indeed - I know we're deliberately not teaching students to do that!

We encourage our students to move swiftly through the course, so I'd almost rather the student stops altogether rather than slowing down.  I want the dog to hurry back into heel position.

miranadobe

... I really agree.  I cannot imagine having a 16'x3' space dedicated to this single jump.  Sorry, but I blame the judges who accepted the Recommendations as is without clarifying that crap.  There was ample time from the recommendations to the vote to get that fixed...

I haven't looked, but some from the Rally list I'm on have (judges included), and said they couldn't find any mention of Send To Jump anyplace until it was approved.

I'm not so sure we can blame an Agility person- everyone I've spoken to, either in person or via the internet has an issue with it because the dog has to come back to heel.  I think our "saving grace" is that it appears a lot of judges don't like it, either, and have already said they won't use it.  Oh, sure, we still have to train it, but it looks like the chances of seeing it at a trial are slim.  Unless, of course, the AKC does what I think they'll do, and make it a required station.

micksmom

I have heard of at least 3 judges who said they won't use it.   Because of that, I predict the next change the AKC makes will be requiring it.

I've heard the same thing from numerous judges, & I suspect that you're right about it becoming a required sign.

micksmom

I like they way you and Cher have worked the jump.  It sounds "legal" to me since the dog can return to heel by going around the jump.

I'm hoping that it's legal.  I think that it will be, as does our trainer.  I have concerns about the station being placed along the outside edge of the ring, & there not being enough room for Cher to fit through between the jump & the ring gate on the return to heel.  I suppose I'll deal with that as the issue arises.

BEVOLASVEGAS

..I'm hoping that it's legal.  I think that it will be, as does our trainer.  I have concerns about the station being placed along the outside edge of the ring, & there not being enough room for Cher to fit through between the jump & the ring gate on the return to heel.  I suppose I'll deal with that as the issue arises.

 Since, according to the email I saw, it's legal for dogs to return to heel by going around the jump, I would think the jump would have to be placed far enough from the outside edge to allow that.

miranadobe

Sorry, but I blame the judges who accepted the Recommendations as is without clarifying that crap. 

All of the judges that I've spoken with, at Cher's trial, & otherwise, have indicated that the send to jump was added without the judges approval.  The folks that I've talked with were all waiting for the AKC to give them guidance on how the station was to be performed because it was a surprise addition. 

miranadobe

I suspect that entries for shows btwn now and April will be greater than usual because folks still don't have the clarification from the AKC and would rather just compete under the old rules than risk training and trialing wrong.

I know that most of the "regular" rally folks in my area are planning to do this with your reasoning in mind.  For us, it's not a big deal.  Cher will probably have greater success under the new rules because honoring on leash isn't something that I have any use for.  For us, the leash means a handful of things, & sit-stay/down-stay aren't any of those things.  If Cher NQ's in excellent, it will be due to her deciding to offer behaviors during her honor. 

miranadobe

I honestly suspect some Agility person is to blame.

At first, I said the same thing.  We train for rally at a different club than we train for obedience.  The club where we're training has 4 rally/obedience people, & about 50 agility/flyball people.  When our agility folks saw what they were asking for with the send over jump, they were all bothered by it.  Not for the send over, but for the call back to heel around the jump.  Safety was a big concern of theirs.

BEVOLASVEGAS

miranadobe

Sorry, but I blame the judges who accepted the Recommendations as is without clarifying that crap. 

All of the judges that I've spoken with, at Cher's trial, & otherwise, have indicated that the send to jump was added without the judges approval.