Considering cooking my dogs' meals..

I hear ya on the bloody meat. LOL. Sandy (JRT) is on Raw and it took me awhile to get over the squimishness. Now I like to listen to her crunch bones. lol.

redlegos

He itches constantly and loses hair on his tail and rear end.

Flea bite allergies are sometimes the cause of itching and hair loss in that area.  And it doesn't take an infestation.  Just one bite from one flea can cause intense itchiness for days or even weeks for an allergic dog.

I would buy a nutrition book written by a vet. I trust recipes from veterinary nutritionists way more than the ones I find from people online.

 My favorite is written by Dr. Pitcairn. I have his latest edition, and it has recipes for active dogs, allergies, kidney disease, etc. Plus, they are really easy to make and the ingredients are not difficult to find.

jettababy

My favorite is written by Dr. Pitcairn.

A nutrition book is a GREAT idea -- but ...

*smile* that's why there is CHOICE.  I don't like Pitcairn -- and he's been around for years.  Vet's, for my peace of mind, don't take much nutrition in vet school -- so that doesn't set them up for me as a an authority here.  I prefer a canine nutritionist like either Monica Segal or Sabine Contreras.  Both of them are very good (and have vet approvals out the ying yang).

Jettababy please don't think I"m bashing you -- LOTS of folks like Pitcairn and he is well-respected, I'm just not among them.  I just think it's funny how incredibly diverse something like an innocent question about home-cooking can become, and honestly ALL folks who home cook typically do way way way better for their dogs than the *average* person who doesn't.  You know what goes into what you make - you know what the quality is ... right there you're doing well for your pet.

Redlegos -- the answer to how much is going to vary completely by the individual dog.  Even two dogs of the same size don't always need/use the same amount of food.  Breed has a TON to do with it. 

I home cook for Luna and Tink -- Tink is a pug and *should be* about 16.5 pounds.  We have the devil's own time adjusting her weight.  Luna, at 31 pounds, if FINALLY where she should be, but I have the worst time keeping weight *on* her.

Luna literally eats *more than* three times what Tink does.  It's a pure difference in metabolism in their breed make-up.  (and this is one of the reasons why you see so many fat pugs)

So you don't feed them "all they want" and there is no magic formula for how much they should eat.  Start them on something like 1/4 to 1/3 cup (assuming they are around 8-10 pounds?) twice a day. 

 Weigh them before you start ... and then weigh them every week or every two weeks for a month.  If you see them gaining, back off on the food a bit.  If you see them losing, add a bit more food.

MEASURE.  Be consistent.  If you don't measure it you won't be able to adjust it.  I use a measuring cup and literally keep it in the fridge on the container of dogfood.  USE THE SAME ONE -- (sorry, this is the voice of bitter experience here -- it's the only way to ensure you do this consistently).

 I go by a basic recipe but I vary it widely.  I use a ton of different veggies, not the same ones over and over.  This is where you either have to go with a pretty rigid recipe by a well-known nutriitonist or vary your recipe all over the place (including all different veggies from parsnips to kale to orange/white/green/all colors veggies).   simply because in order to balance the diet you can be 1) really precise or 2) really varied so you catch the different minerals, etc. in the variety (much as we feed our own human selves).

You will need to supplement with calcium at a minimum -- some use eggshell, some use bonemeal (food grade NOT garden grade), and some use sea calcium (I use Animal Essentials calcium)

HOWEVER -- be cautious.  Since you've got one you suspect may, in truth, have a food intolerance (and honestly I agree with Myra -- that sounds SO much like flea allergy dermatitis and vets are sometimes going to miss that) you likely should -- to maximize what you are trying to do -- do a food trial FIRST.  I know you have wrestled with skin problems for a long, long time!!  I applaud your effort to do something positive!!

an "elimination" or  trial diet is different -- it is literally just TWO ingredients.  That's all.  Usually a meat and some veggie.  Preferably you want to go to something "novel".  Literally something they've never had before.

An elmination or trial diet does not need to be 'balanced' -- you'll only feed it for 3-6 weeks alone and then you will begin "adding" ingredients to see what provokes a bad reaction.

You could start with something like whitefish and mashed potato -- to be honest, your best bet would be to again seek the help of an expert.  Simply to help you work your way thru it.

But you have to be rigid -- that means no treats, no extras -- you have to monitor every single thing that goes in their mouth and guidance for that is way more than I can give you in a post like this.  But you have to avoid anything he's eaten in the past or you won't be able to rule out what it isn't.  In other words if you try to do an elmination diet of chicken and rice and he doesn't do any better on it, you won't know if it is because he "didn't do well on cooked food" or whether it's because chicken and/or rice was part of the problem.

But if you do an elmination diet of something like ... lets say peas and sweet potato (because you couldn't find a meat that was an easily obtainable novel protein so you used peas) ... and you are TRULY rigid -- if he's not one whit better in 3 weeks, then it's probably NOT food.  Does that make sense?

But if you let family "cheat" and slip them treats (which might have wheat, beef, soy, chicken, etc. etc. etc. in them) then you won't know a thing after all your effort. 

Callie- You're brilliant. Lol.

So do you recommend I get the book or call and get the advice of a vet, or both? I actually measure their food right now. Chico has been taking steriods since he was a little under 1 so he is very muscular, not 'fat', so he is quite a bit bigger than Pedro which weighs about 6 pounds. I think Chico is around 15. It's insane to hear that but he's nothing but pure muscle and he's strong and can run like crazy. Of course steriods would do that to you, but there is nothing I can do to the poor dog now, I can't make him little again. They both get 1/4 cup of dog food, but Pedro never eats all of his. Do I feed that same amount when I start cooking their food? Sorry if that seems like a dumb question.

I have been reading since last night but it does seem like different websites offer slightly different information. Some of them are generally the same .. like the diet is 50% grain, 25% veggies and 25% protein. You said you think I should start off with whitefish and mashed potatoes for about 3 weeks (just so I'm clear on what you said) and then start adding things in? I'm not going to begin doing any of this until im sure of what I'm doing though. What about giving them a vitamin supplement, or is that a bad idea?

 And I know you said no treats.. but what about greenies? If I have to keep them from Chico, it's okay but they really are the only thing that helps Pedro's gums and bad breath! lol.

redlegos

But when they did the skin scrapings.. they found no flea bites or eggs..

Unfortuantely vets and their techs want to do a "test" to "prove" something that doesn't need to be proven.  All it takes is ***ONE*** bite from a flea -- one that perhaps bites and dies (depending on what prevention you use).  Flea allergy dermatitis means they are allergic to flea **spit**.  Yes, I'm serious. 

 All it takes is ONE bite from one flea that jumps off, dies or takes a hike -- but that **One** bite will make a flea allergic dog miserable for months.  You don't have to find biies (plural) you don't have to find eggs, you don't have to have an "infestation" -- all you gotta have is ONE frigging flea bite to make that dog miserable for months.

 The other thing that can go right along with this is thyroid.  He doesn't have to be "Old" -- all the thyroid has to be is a **little**out of whack ... a *little* low and you won't get resolution on any skin stuff you try.  And general thinning of coat on both sides of the body is pretty classic.

But you won't find a "little" thyroid problem with a regualr thyroid panel.  You'd have to do a breed specific panel (like send it to Michigan State or to Dr. Jean Dodds at Hemopet).  That's an evaluation that will tell you something.

redlegos

DinOvite someone said that it's the omega 3 fatty acids that are what's helping him

Typically Omega 3's arent in food because they spoil too easily.  You can give him a sardine a day -- he will love you beyond belief for it and it's readily absorbable by the body.  If you've got a coffee grinder you can get flax seed bulk at Whole Foods (CHEAP CHEAP) and add 1/8 teas. of ground flax to his food once a day.  Both are easy both are good omega 3's. 

Honestly?  What really bothers me is WHY he hates the Dinovite so much?  I would suspect either there is something that doesn't agree with him or he's telling you it's too hard on hjis stomach.  When a dog takes THAT much of a dislike to something I'd tend to listen to them.

When you do the food trial you can *not* give him anything else at all.  You'll have to suck it up and be "mean" for that time.  Probably don't give itreats to either of them.

 You are likely to find out fast if it's food or not.  If you choose your ingredients well -- things they've never had and things not likely to be an allergen if the skin heals up and is *fine* fast you'll know it WAS food if that's the **only** thing you change.  In other words, don't start a food trial and thyroid supplementation at the same time.  Don't start a food trial and change what you launder his bedding in at the same time.  Change *only* food.

Does that make sense?  In other words -- think thru it carefully -- don't start a food trial when life is going to be in upheaval because of vacation, or anything like that.

Go back up to my post and re-read the part where I told you how to determine the amount.  It doesn't matter what amount you start them at -- 1/4 should be LOTS for small dogs.  Just be prepared to adjust it after you weigh them.  It's like I said -- my two dogs are at opposite ends of the spectrum -- one looks at food (ANY food) and gains weight.  The other could eat the house down and not gain.  Tink and I both say "Life ain't fair!"

calliecritturs

Jettababy please don't think I"m bashing you -- LOTS of folks like Pitcairn and he is well-respected, I'm just not among them.

Don't worry! I know you're not bashing me. I completely understand; I don't like all nutritionists either...for example Strombeck's recipes are too carb-heavy IMO and seem too simple to have all the necessary nutrients. Monica's recipes I don't care for because they're too complicated for *me* to make on a regular basis...plus I don't think good nutrition has to be such an exact science!  I like Pitcairn simply because he seems like a happy-medium and his recipes work well for my pups. They are easy enough to make with ingredients I generally have on hand (the only difficult ingredients to find are the components of his "healthy powder supplement", which requires brewers yeast, ground kelp, etc).

jettababy

Monica's recipes I don't care for because they're too complicated for *me* to make on a regular basis...plus I don't think good nutrition has to be such an exact science! 

Monica Segal has been a friend of mine since we used to write for AllPets together like 13 years ago.  Her diets drive me CRAY-ZAYYYYY they are so minute and futzy. 

But they *are* good.  But man are they complicated.

Can I give a bit of different advice?  Just make a couple of days worth of homecooked meals just to see if your dogs will eat them on a regular basis.  Because I have to say, I would spend much time cooking and Willow would LOVE the meals on the first night when they were freshly done and then once day two or three came and they were just reheated that was a different story.  So, might save you some money if you see if they will eat homecooked regularly first.  Then you can get the meals balanced, etc. 

I like to occasionally make her something and I use this old cookbook for dogs called Real Food for Dogs. 

I get it.  I feed a "semi raw" diet, a homemade diet. But, I also understand the whole raw diet thing.  My dog gets Dinovite too...it's a whole food supplement, not a medicine.  And, there's a whole lot more than omega fatty acids in it.  There's the live probiotics, digestive enzymes, tons of delicate vitamins and other nutrients that truly are cooked out of all dog foods, even the best dog foods.  I'm a fan because my dog is the best he's ever been on a homemade diet and DInovite. 

The good thing about the type of diet I feed is that it actually hides the supplemetn!  I actually use two of the whole food supplements in the food. 

 Well, yesterday, I got an email with a video that actually SHOWS how to make the same diet my dog eats!  Actually even foster dogs.

 Sometimes I actually make this and cook it and then add the supplements.  So if you are opposed to actually raw, then cooking it works too.  I have never had any dog refuse to eat this, even iwth the supplements on it!  Here's the link:

 http://www.dinovite.com/blog/2011/06/make-a-homemade-diet-for-your-pet-easily-and-economically/

 I find it very straight forward, easy and for your two very small dogs, you would spend probably about $40 a month and have a super high quality food.  The starting point for portions is 2.5% of body weight.  My snoozer eats about that.  Very active dogs would get a bit more.  This is a terrific place to start if you have never made a homemade food for your dogs.  Then you can add or subtract things from it and come up with your own recipe that works for you!