Dog Community

Agility - how are your classes run?

Posted : 5/21/2010 10:14:59 AM

We had a bit of a spat last night at our agility class (I was not directly involved). Nikon and I are in basic agility, so it's for adult dogs with no experience (there is also puppy agility for physically immature dogs, and intermediate for those doing more off lead and working on sequences and crosses...later in the summer as it progresses there will also be advanced which is for those who do or will compete). There are two instructors, plus the club owner there to help, and 8 dogs so it's a FULL class. The dogs are supposed to be intermediate/CGC obedience or higher and dog friendly. Nikon is not dog-friendly but is not dog-unfriendly, if that makes sense. He is totally under my control, tolerates being very close to other dogs (and even getting his butt sniffed), just can't have dogs jumping on him or charging him, he's not interested in play. At the first class the instructors asked if anyone had a dog that did not like having personal space invaded so I raised my hand. I tend to make him sound worse than he is so people get the point. I'm not sure who else raised their hand, but the club owner then reminded everyone to keep control over their dog and pay attention (ie, don't start a conversation and let your dog be going out to the end of an 8 foot leash). One of the instructors also reminded us that the dogs may get worked up in drive which is fine but it will make it more likely for the dogs not taking turns to get edgier and aroused.

So the first class went OK except I noticed a few clueless people who just let their dogs go wherever they want. I took note to avoid these people. Me and this girl with an awesome pit bull, plus my friend with a GSD kind of hang together since we can control our dogs. There was this other GSD owner who was getting dragged around by her dog and admitted that she can't control him without a prong (for agility we use flat collars for safety and since the CGC level is technically a requirement).

The second class went great, but there were three people gone - my friend with her GSD, another person I don't know, and the lady being dragged by her GSD.

Last night was the third class and everyone was back. We repeated several obstacles we've already learned so me and a few other people were doing more drive building with toy rewards, getting the dogs revved up, so the atmosphere was more aroused. The lady with the large GSD was constantly getting jerked by her dog, then at one point she didn't catch him out of the tunnel and he charged over to my friend and her GSD. My friend's dog is nice but she doesn't mince words so she just yelled "HEY!!" to the lady and the dog and scowled. Then while waiting turns, the large GSD dragged the lady 30 feet and charged the pit bull. The lady could not control the dog and she said, "he's nice, he's not going to do anything." The instructor yelled and came over. No fight happened but then the GSD owner said she was leaving b/c she was sick of people thinking her dog was a killer. I rolled my eyes b/c clearly she doesn't understand that it's not about whether her dog is nice, but she has no control over him and he's charging other dogs. I said under my breath that if he'd charge my dog like that there would have been a problem and her dog would have been hurt either by my dog or more likely by me intervening.

After class I talked to the club owner and instructors (they asked me what I thought, since even though it's beginner's I am not "new", I've taken dozens of training classes here). I said I did not think the dog was mean or a killer but the lady needs to understand that other dogs might be killers and that we are here to work, not for off leash dog socialization. Even barking and being crazy is fine because the dogs are supposed to have fun, but the owners MUST have control.

These incidents got me thinking about how other clubs run agility courses. Do you have all the dogs standing around in close proximity? When Nikon is waiting a turn I either have him do a down, or I am distracting him with a toy and doing a little obedience, I do not let him fixate on the other dogs. What are class size limits? Are dogs crated when taking turns? I've seen that done before and that is how we work in SchH, so all the dogs can work off leash and focus without worrying about being charged. It's generally never the working dog that's the issue but the dogs standing around watching. Eventually as the dogs mature we can work 3-4 dogs out at a time or find groups of dogs that are not distracted by each other. If that large GSD comes back I have half a mind to drag a crate out for class just for my own dog's peace.

spiritdogs

Posted : 5/21/2010 2:41:42 PM

Every class I've been in, and all the ones my friends run, are similar to yours. Owners are expected to have basic control over their dogs and the classes are generally run full with 8 dogs. One of my dogs is under exquisite control, but not willing to have her space invaded rudely (sounds just like Nikon in that regard), so I can identify with your situation. I think the instructors need to have a chat with that lady even if it means she goes back to a basic obedience class until her dog is more reliable.

jennie_c_d

Posted : 5/21/2010 4:23:59 PM

My experience has been the same as Anne's. Some folks will choose to crate, and some won't. Generally those who compete or plan to will crate, to help their dogs be accustomed to crating around strange dogs. Everybody has to have control, or they're moved. Sometimes, moved permanently, if they refuse to do things differently.

Liesje

Posted : 5/22/2010 9:44:32 AM

How do you guys take turns? For example, in SchH we take like 1-3 dogs out at a time, and they have a longer turn. Those not taking a turn help with things like line handling (like holding a dog for a restrained recall), standing in a group for heeling, helping with equipment, or just watching and critiquing. If the dogs are not gassed after that, they might come out again later for a second turn. But at my agility class, it's like everyone is out all at once and a "turn" is just one try at the obstacle. I wonder if it makes more sense to have your "turn" be your 3-4 reps on that obstacle and then you are done until the next obstacle? It just seems like for me my dog learns better when I can keep the wheels in his brain turning by attempting something a few times in a row and making progress each time, rather than just doing it once where it's over before he knows it and then he's more tempted to watch other dogs than think about what we just did. At home, I generally go with 5 reps. and even in that short amount of time I generally see progress and I'm not working the dog to exhaustion or boredom. So, if we are proofing retrieves, we do five of them (or if one is *perfect* we end there with a jackpot). If we are running blinds, he does it five times and I increased distance and drive each time. If I'm trying to teach a front cross, I'll try the sequence 5 times.

oranges81

Posted : 5/22/2010 1:13:12 PM

At my agility class there are 2 trainers on the field, no more then 5 dogs per class. We wait our turn and get 3 goes at new equipment. If we're running a full circuit, we do it twice. When Maze and I are waiting our turn, I do focus games with her to keep her mind off the other dogs. Dogs are allowed to bark but the trainers work hard to teach the dogs to settle on the side lines. If a dog charges another dog, they're put away for about 5 minutes and made to watch the other dogs having fun. Funnily enough the offending dog only has to be put away once or twice before they learn. I have 2 crates set up on the side lines for Maze and Sandy and an expen set up incase I need to remove someone quickly.

Also the trainers have no issue about sending a dog back to basic obedience if necessary.

BlackLabbie

Posted : 5/22/2010 1:48:03 PM

oranges81
If a dog charges another dog, they're put away for about 5 minutes and made to watch the other dogs having fun.

When Apollo was very dog reactive this^ would not have made a difference at all- he wouldn't sit in the crate and think "dang! I wanna have fun too, I'd better behave" and then decide to stop reacting aggressively. Honestly, by sitting in a crate watching/fixating he'd probably be stewing in his own juices and it might've revved him up even more when taken out of the crate.

Sera_J

Posted : 5/22/2010 4:12:43 PM

Mine is an ongoing class, so we have the same people weekly (minor changes of course) for over a year now. We run it with sizes and experience, it's geared for people who want to compete, so while we are all in the same class some are more experienced handlers (dogs all started at the same level) and those of us who are novices. Then broken down to size of jumps. We ALL crate between turns. So, (for example) when 24" is running and we are teamed up with 12" dogs, the 12" dogs are crated and vice versa. Dogs are crated while we walk the courses, as well, it started this way before we were running courses :)

We are expected to have control over our dogs every minute they are there. Period. We have a bunch of intact animals in the class as it's a competition level and many are conformation dogs as well. I also think our group is very proactive in this, doing as you do, Liesje, obedience commands, tugging, working over equipment that is placed there for warm-ups, etc. Or if we want to socialize or watch people running we put our dogs away.

I've so far had only one bad experience where a woman lost control of her male Aussie. This was their first tiime in our class. It went after a few different dogs while on-leash, but she said it was fine if he was off leash. Unfortunately that was not true. He attacked a JRT that was working nearby (JRT was OK).... then ran from her when she tried to collect him. And bee-lined it right for Logan (we were NOT close, either) we were boxed in a corner working. Logan didn't notice at first, thankfully, so it allowed me to step in-between and keep the dog away while the trainers got there. That dog/owner has not been back to our class since. I don't know if she quit, went back to OB, joined another class? I have no idea... but, they didn't show up again. And I'm very happy with that, and how my trainers handled it.

Sounds like this lady needs a good talking to! And FWIW, I'd bring a crate if I were you, just so you have a chance to focus and watch others. When I have Logan out, my attention is on him at least 80% even if he's in a down-stay.... so, I tend to learn more when he's put away.

oranges81

Posted : 5/22/2010 7:47:38 PM

BlackLabbie
oranges81
If a dog charges another dog, they're put away for about 5 minutes and made to watch the other dogs having fun.
When Apollo was very dog reactive this^ would not have made a difference at all- he wouldn't sit in the crate and think "dang! I wanna have fun too, I'd better behave" and then decide to stop reacting aggressively. Honestly, by sitting in a crate watching/fixating he'd probably be stewing in his own juices and it might've revved him up even more when taken out of the crate.

I think it really depends on the dog. If the dog is a repeat offender then they are asked to leave. However with a couple of dogs (Maze included) the worst thing you can do to them, is remove them from the fun. Maze is so in love with agility that 5 minutes in her crate is brutal to her. Once she comes back out, she's better behaved and more willing to play by the rules.

tashakota

Posted : 5/25/2010 2:36:03 PM

Being an instructor of several levels of classes, they vary.

Intro, meaning brand new folks to agility, are on lead and all out at the same time. This faciliates introducing dogs to obstacles in a fast manner and gives dogs and handlers a break in between tries. Sounds silly but it goes faster this way. If handlers can not control their dogs, then they are asked to leave. I've only had to do this once so far. When we get to the tunnel where the leash must be dropped, we use extra instructors or long lines to control dogs.

Once you get beyond Intro, all dogs are crated if not working. This allows dogs working to do so off-leash and prevents issues. Dogs that run off and snark at other dogs in crates, are immediately crated. Dogs that zoom are different as long as they are not snarking or doing "run-bys" of other dogs. "Run-bys" to me, are when a dog runs really fast, really close to another dog. This is rude behavior and would set off my dog, so I do not allow it in class.

I have a reactive dog that would snarl and snap at a dog that runs up to his face. Dogs not interested in a fight would back away and avoid him. However a dog just like him would probably react the same way he would and hence, the issue. He's a small dog so I protect him by crating. I can then body block other dogs if need be and it takes no time for me to get him out of his crate.

There are the clueless and then there are the ones that are trying really hard but not making much progress. I feel bad for the latter type.