Help help help me decide!!!

 In the rally class, he will presumably be off lead in the presence of other dogs, then leashed or crated while they are off lead, right? And there is some fast movement. Someone will get the zoomies. There are two fast signs. It'd be less stimulating than the agility class, which is both good and bad. Bad because it's less, good because he can work a little slower, and not get so overstimulated about OMGRUNNINGDOGMUSTGETITNOW.

Also, out of sight stay with dogs moving past. OMG WOW! That sounds super hard, LOL.

 I think, given your dog, I would do rally first, then maybe find a "control unleashed" class, then do agility.  That way, you get to participate with your fave trainer, you install a nice series of strategies, or "shut off switch" *before* you get in any difficulty, thus really setting him up for success in the agility class.

Maybe I'll do one of each and see what he likes better.  My gut feeling is that I'm going to lose him during an hour of rally.  Off leash work in either class won't be a problem, he's been off leash at Schutzhund from day one.  I don't want to shut him off at all, just don't want to be disruptive.  When we did our other classes, he did fine, but some of the other dogs were always going off at us whenever I rewarded him with a toy.  If the rally class it outdoors, it would be less of a problem because there is more working space.  I personally like the drive and the intensity and have no intention of shutting it off, but I don't know which activity is more appropriate for that.  And I miss my trainer.... *sigh*

Your gut is telling you what's better for the dog, right?  Your dilemma is that you miss your trainer?  Have you talked to the trainer you miss and asked for a private consult before you take either course - let him/her help you decide?  A bummed-out handler does not make for a happy dog performance.  Could YOU, as the handler, enjoy the Agility class?

Honestly, if he's that reactive, you will have better control in Adv/Exc Rally classes, because those dogs have achieved a level of self-control, too.  A novice Agility class will have beginners who may have never done much more than basic obedience classes w/their dog.

I feel like it's a toss-up.  I get bored with rally rather quickly (after 10 minutes or so) and so do the dogs, but I know more what to expect and the dog is much farther along.  I think he would enjoy agility more, but it's more of an unknown.  The new requirements are Intermediate obedience (which at this place means CGC).  I know we did have problems in the past with dogs that were out of control and had very little training being disruptive and showing little interest in agility so the requirements got changed and they are doing a "puppy" agility class to fill that niche.  He's not reactive any more and I have control over him, the problems occur when others aren't as diligent and allow their dogs to bum rush everyone else.

I did ask the trainer if she wanted to see him for rally and she said to put him in the advanced class.

Liesje

I get bored with rally rather quickly (after 10 minutes or so) and so do the dogs,

It's fun at home and fun to compete but the classes seem like so much talk and less actual work.  Hopefully agility is not like that too, spending 10 minutes explaining each obstacle and 30 seconds doing it.  I might ask if we can do a practice group for rally rather than a class.  I did that a few years ago, we just setup mock courses and took turns so even with one person out at a time it seemed to move faster with more floor time.  I feel like he should do something before jumping into trial, but maybe a class isn't really what we need. 

For those who also do rally, do you always do a class with your dogs, or just train yourself once you know what the signs mean?

Liesje

I feel like he should do something before jumping into trial, but maybe a class isn't really what we need. 

Find a show-n-go or a match if you're not sure he's ready.  Just before your real trial, get an eval/private consult from your rally trainer if you want to be sure you're looking good enough for the ring.  But I bet you'll be fine.

Liesje

For those who also do rally, do you always do a class with your dogs, or just train yourself once you know what the signs mean?

I do advanced obedience classes that are the foundation of Rally/Obedience competitions, and I practice Rally on my own or with a couple of others at a private location where we set up complete (and complicated) courses.  For extra practice just before a competition, we would attend a drop-in Rally class, too, but it was very little talk, mostly run-thrus with tips thrown in by the instructor, since she was also a judge and that perspective helps.  Aside from the mid-run-thru comments/corrections/instructions, she would usually let us all run through several times, then stop and give us a 5-10 minute "Hey, I saw all of you doing this, a couple of you doing that, and here's what you should be doing.  Now try it again." Then run-thru's resumed.  The only down time was those "let's break it down" moments, and when they'd change jump heights for the smaller dogs.  I can't imagine needing to spend 10 mins teaching a station - it's not like you have to have perfect footwork.  Either your dog heels well or it doesn't.  Either it sits, downs, stays, jumps, stands, or it doesn't.  I don't think I'd be happy in the kind of class you described, either.

I think the problem is that many people at our club never do their homework, so they come to class still stuck on the same trick or confused by the same sign as the week before.  Or, there was one lady who had to ask like a dozen questions about every single sign, every single scenario she could make up in her head, and would ask the question before just thinking it through in her own head.  When we did practice group, it was a smaller group of people who were already competing, so everyone came with specific things in mind to work on, rather than basically relying on the trainer to spoon-feed and hand-hold the entire process.  I think that's an issue with many novice classes, you haven't yet weeded out people who are never going to be competitive or whose dogs couldn't care less.

If the rally classes end up being outside, I'm going to try to swing both of them if I can afford it.  I really like working outdoors with Nikon and then if it's too redundant with people being taught the signs or I start to lose him because it's not intense enough, there's plenty of space to work on our own in a corner (our building is so small, we cannot fit a competition course).

Liesje

Or, there was one lady who had to ask like a dozen questions about every single sign, every single scenario she could make up in her head, and would ask the question before just thinking it through in her own head. 

OMG, now I know where my ex-coworker retired to!!!!  I *detest* those kinds of people.

I have the impression you train more toward Obedience level handling, as opposed to Rally, so you'll be better off than the dozens of dogs I've seen who try to do both Rally & Agility at the same time.  They turn into zoooooom machines in Rally rings thinking it's time to GO! and zombies in Agility because they're looking for more hand/voice/body signals. In general, to novice handlers, I would avoid doing both sports at the same time, but I don't take you for a novice handler.  (Just putting it out there for lurkers)

Lani is doing Agility with Logan right now - and she does multiple sports at once.  I'll point her to this thread if she has some ideas to offer, if you're interested.

Having trained both, I personally am more fond of agility than Rally. While this is just me, I found working in agility helped Gaci's impulse control so much more than Shimmer's Rally class helped her with her dog fears. Rally is so laid back compared to the arousal levels of agility and schutzhund. Gaci actually worked the first three months from her kennel. She would be released from the kennel to do the exercise and then released at the end of the exercise to "Go kennel". It was the running joke for a while that the training group would getting little wheels for her kennel so she had a mobile home. LOL.

In terms of what will benefit you the most, I would think that you will get more bang for your buck from agility, in terms of teaching self control in a stimulating environment - if you have the skills and know-how to do it from foundations. Also, it's a lot easier to learn Rally-O moves at home than it is to do agility at home. You don't often get the chance to do agility outside of class unless you build all of your own equipment - and it's not cheap. Whereas you can teach, and practice, all the skills at home but just need to work in distracting environments for a while to proof it all.

To be honest the Rally class I took is for me and me alone. To teach me, the silly human, how to follow a series of signs appropriately without geting lost. LOL. I taught all the behaviours outside of class, and just used class to teach myself how to work with my dog and the signs (although part of this was because I used a clicker to teach the behaviours and the instructor uses collar corrections and rewards so it was easier for me this way - I just stayed ahead of the class). I will be taking a second class, from the same instructor, for the same reason in hopes of getting both Gaci and Shimmer their titles this summer and fall.

But I don't know where I'd be without having had a group to train agility with. I have the "big group" that I trained with all last summer, and a smaller group that we train with each week here at home, and you get huge benefits in discussing tips, techniques, how to run a course well, and watching other handlers doing their thing to learn what to do, and what not to do, because agility is much more subjective where you have to make a lot of decisions on your own as to how best to run a course.

In the end though you really just have to go with what you are most comfortable with, what you will benefit most from, and what you will enjoy most of all. Even though I love agility so much more I still do Rally and am actually entering a match tomorrow to see how my, and their, skills are holding up. The dogs are going to do so much better than me.

 I always go to classes, but my dogs demo, and spend time in their crates. I'm doing it to have other people point out my errors, and for time in a crate around strange dogs, time working around strange dogs, etc.

FWIW, I've never done agility. I can't run, and my dogs aren't agility prospects, in the least. Jewel is old, and Bean has a luxating patella. Emma was a flat out trainwreck, so I never even considered it.