Allergies?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Allergies?

    My dads dog Jack has started having some issues with his ears. Hes constantly shaking his head, and scratches at them all the time. They are a little dirty, but not bad. They do NOT smell bad at all, just like "normal" ear smell. They dont look red, theres no slimy waxy stuff, theres a little bit of dirty wax but nothing out of the ordinary. So, Im thinking that its not an ear infection, and more likely allergies? My dad said he was going to bring him to the vet. I told him that I think he should wait, and we should try a switch in food brands first. I know it couldnt hurt, but my vet isnt the greatest, and Bailey has gone there a million times before for his ear problems. I didnt know what it was, and just assumed it was an infection. Each time they gave me cleaner, and cream for his ears that cost a ton, and no matter how much I put it in it never helped his ears. Until I learned that allergies could be the cause of it, switched him to a raw diet with salmon oil and bee pollen supplements, and ever since then he hasnt had one single problem with his ears.

    ALL of this started, as soon as he started eating TOTW. Before this, he ate Blue Buffalo, Pinnacle, and Wellness without any problems. It was the poultry version of totw, and since he has never had the poultry version of any kind of food, I thought that maybe he was allergic to it. BUT, he has been eating the salmon TOTW for 2 weeks now with NO change, at all.

    The only thing Jack gets other than his food is beef marrow bones, which he has been getting every week since we got him and has no problems with them. And milkbones... My dad buys them even though I told him they are horrible, he thinks they are ok because they are "just a treat". But Jack doesnt get that much of them and even on days when he has had a ton of them, he has never had any problems or reactions to them, his ears were always fine after.

    From what Ive heard from everyone here, TOTW is a pretty good food, right? Is it possible that hes allergic to something that is in TOTW but NOT BB, Pinnacle, or Wellness?
    Which foods of those are the best, which should we try swtiching him to?


    • Gold Top Dog

    Absolutely NOT!!!! Vet ***FIRST***.  What you are talking about truly sounds like a deep infection -- could be bacterial.  Rule that out **FIRST** -- then play with food.

    Dog *food* allergies do exist -- however, very very frequently atopy is the primary thing.  When did he switch foods?  So very often you really can't tell what changed outside, how dry the air got inside, etc.

    Picture a bucket under a drippy faucet.  The bucket also has a small hole in it.  However **sometimes** the drippy faucet runs just a tiny bit faster than the hole lets water out -- EVENTUALLY the bucket will fill.

    But there is also rain going in that bucket -- and sometimes the faucet is actually turned ON deliberately and that might fill up the bucket.  sooooo -which water is which?  The drippy water?  rain?  leakage from the hose? 

    does it MATTER?  no -- because it's all water.

    When it all finally gets to the top and spills over -- what's at fault?   The little drips?  the rain?  the hose? 

    You can even dump some of the water out.  OR you can maybe buy a new hose and stop SOME of it -- but the bucket is still going to be nearly full most of the time --

    In other words -- my analogy means the ***allergies*** are there all the time.  Now it might be the food that is the EASY thing to "change" -- but are you really getting "rid" of allergies? no -- you're merely attacking one easier potential allergy source -- but most of the time dog allergies hover right near the surface threatening to "run over" most of the time

    Dog allergies are similar -- 'allergies' cause things like inflammation in the ears, sometimes hotspots, sometimes sniffles, sometimes major reactions -- but very often it's a conglomeration of MANY things.

    To break it down you can get statistics that say about anything -- like some percentage of dog allergies are atopy (and it's really the far far biggest percentage -- like way way over 50 - 65% -- food allergies (real true "allergies" -- as opposed to intolerances) are maybe 25% -- then you have incidentals like contact allergies and flea allergies. 

    What happens is people tend to hop from food to food to food -- chasing the eternal novel protein.  OOPS -- because every single time you switch food, you literally SUDDENLY introduce this enormous whole big new bunch of ***ALLERGENS*** into the body. 

    new preservatives, new protein, new fibers, new ingredients --

    And honestly?  You can literally **create** new allergies where there weren't any before. 

    RAther than just swtiching to a NEW food -- go back to the old one.  Be a bit scientific about this.  Even if it's a BAD food -- switch back to what was last well tolerated.

    Why?  Because if, then the problem goes away then it's likely the TOTW.  However -- you've got a darned good chance that it won't go away.  Because there's a darned good chance that altho maybe the TOTW **helped** by exposing the body to a whole new slew of potential allergens, things like dust/wallpaper mites/dry air from the furnace (full of dust), even the in/out of  Christmas decorations or housecleaning or whatever dry/neated air thing you have going on at your house is like in January/February -- that's likely more at the root of the cause of the problem than JUST food.

    Now -- at the same time -- better food, with good Omega 3 fatty acids, and good quality ingredients -- those things should make for a healthier dog.  But unless you can seal the dog in a room, make it stop breathing, and contacting the floor and outside, it's really pretty impossible to KNOW for sure if "food" is a problem.

    NOW -- I hear your frustations about the vet -- but again, approach it **scientifically**.

    don't just let the vet hand you another "tube" of stuff.  Go in and ***ASK*** for a "culture and sensitivity" -- specifically ask FOR that. 

    The vet will take a swab culture from deep in the ear.  THAT is then sent to a lab.  They will identify it (yeast, bacteria, etc.) AND they will also then culture whatever they find and grow 5-6 specimens of it and then apply several different antibiotics to that and see which kills it MOST effectively.  They will literally give you a list of 5-6 anbiotics/anti-fungals (whatever "kills" whatever they got from his ears) in a numbered list so you know what's the least nasty drug that will kill it, what won't work at all, and what to use if the first one doesn't clear it up.

    BUT you will get yourself a baseline.  If the ears are historically fubared, then there's a darned good chance that under it all there IS bacteria.  THAT can be continually keeping his ears sore and ripe for problems to set into them.

    Allergies can and will add to that.  BUT approach it from a sensible perspective so you can truly control it all.

    IF it's not bacterial at all -- you may want to try the Blue Power Ear solution (plain alcohol will wipe off the purple) -- and it can relieve the deep symptoms FAST while you attack it from a food/other idea thing ONCE you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you don't have a bacterial infection raging in there.

    Bacterial infections don't "show".  They don't cause external redness.  There may be some head-shaking.  Or there may simply be this eternal "ear probllem" that NEVER gets rectified.

    A vet who just hands you tube after tube of 'stuff' is dangerous.  That's how my Muffin the Intrepid lost his ears.  Because ears that are DEEPLY inflamed (but often don't show it externally) will literally harden and the ear canals themselves will ossify.  That's rarely reversible.  We ultimately had to have his ears removed -- and I NEVER KNEW there was a difference between bacterial and fungal infections, I never knew he had a bacterial one that just never *ever* went away no matter what the vet had done.

    Hope this makes sense.  Once you get this test done (and DON"T let the vet say "ok I can just look at it in the back" -- NO ***insist*** on the culture and sensitivity - then you have a baseline for whatever is definitively wrong!!!)  then you can change food if you feel it's warranted.  But -- you honestly would be better off dong a real elmination diet than just bouncing from food to food.  But that's a whole other topic.

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs

    NOW -- I hear your frustations about the vet -- but again, approach it **scientifically**.

    don't just let the vet hand you another "tube" of stuff.  Go in and ***ASK*** for a "culture and sensitivity" -- specifically ask FOR that. 

    The vet will take a swab culture from deep in the ear.  THAT is then sent to a lab.  They will identify it (yeast, bacteria, etc.) AND they will also then culture whatever they find and grow 5-6 specimens of it and then apply several different antibiotics to that and see which kills it MOST effectively.  They will literally give you a list of 5-6 anbiotics/anti-fungals (whatever "kills" whatever they got from his ears) in a numbered list so you know what's the least nasty drug that will kill it, what won't work at all, and what to use if the first one doesn't clear it up.

    BUT you will get yourself a baseline.  If the ears are historically fubared, then there's a darned good chance that under it all there IS bacteria.  THAT can be continually keeping his ears sore and ripe for problems to set into them.

    Allergies can and will add to that.  BUT approach it from a sensible perspective so you can truly control it all.

    IF it's not bacterial at all -- you may want to try the Blue Power Ear solution (plain alcohol will wipe off the purple) -- and it can relieve the deep symptoms FAST while you attack it from a food/other idea thing ONCE you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you don't have a bacterial infection raging in there.

    Bacterial infections don't "show".  They don't cause external redness.  There may be some head-shaking.  Or there may simply be this eternal "ear probllem" that NEVER gets rectified.

    A vet who just hands you tube after tube of 'stuff' is dangerous.  That's how my Muffin the Intrepid lost his ears.  Because ears that are DEEPLY inflamed (but often don't show it externally) will literally harden and the ear canals themselves will ossify.  That's rarely reversible.  We ultimately had to have his ears removed -- and I NEVER KNEW there was a difference between bacterial and fungal infections, I never knew he had a bacterial one that just never *ever* went away no matter what the vet had done.

    Hope this makes sense.  Once you get this test done (and DON"T let the vet say "ok I can just look at it in the back" -- NO ***insist*** on the culture and sensitivity - then you have a baseline for whatever is definitively wrong!!!)  then you can change food if you feel it's warranted.  But -- you honestly would be better off dong a real elmination diet than just bouncing from food to food.  But that's a whole other topic.

    Thats kind of why I told him he should get one of the other foods he did good on before he brings him to the vet. I really do NOT like our vet (Bailey & Jack go to the same one) Its a good 45 min drive away from us, but its the closest one I could find that seems any good. The one in my town, I *hate*. When Bailey got neutered there, they tried to give us back someone elses dog when we went to pick him up. May not seem like a big deal but, they didnt even know which dog he was? What if he had been given the wrong surgery? And then when he got heartworm treatment, they really did not explain anything to us. They gave him the shot and we brought him home. I was not prepared at all for how much pain he was in, I had to carry him into the house, he was crying on and on for hours just laying on the couch. I was scared something was wrong so the vet said we could bring him in and they would watch him, and when we went to pick him up that night they had him sitting in a cage in the back by himself, the lady at the counter didnt even know he was THERE. We had another issue there, when our cat was really sick. They said she was dehydrated and just gave her fluids, and that was all. It perked her up a bit, but the next day she was just getting worse. We brought her to our current vet (we had never been there before at the time) and they were shocked that our other vet didnt do anything, turns out she had some huge infection (in her liver,spleen maybe? it was some organ, I dont remember exactly) and she got a series of antibiotic shots over a few weeks, and got better. That kind of "sold" us on this vet. But, still, they arnt all that good. You know the rash Bailey has? The first time I brought him to the vet for it, he INSISTED they were from fly bites, and all he suggested was that I STOP LEAVING HIM OUTSIDE ALL DAY. I told him that is NOT left outside all day, and he just said it could be from fleas and then tried to sell me some advantix. He didnt have fleas, and Im sure you know that its not even from fleas.
    I know if my dad brings Jack to the vet that he will just go with whatever the vet says. My dads not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to dog stuff, and no matter how much I try to explain things he just doesnt listen. So, Im sure that if the vet tells him something, he will believe it because "hes a vet, so he must be right". I know he'll just end up coming back with some ear cleaner or something.
    There is a realy big vet clinic (its an emergency vet, open 24/7) and some people I know that go there said it is really good. Ive called about brining Bailey there but they arnt taking any more cliants anytime soon, they told me to check again next summer Tongue Tied
    He said he was going to the pet store tomarrow to get some Pinnacle (Jack did fine on it, the only reason he wanted to swtich him was becuase he goes to tractor supply a lot and they dont have Pinnacle, but they have TOTW)
    I'll tell him to call and ask to make an appointment at the vet at a time when I can go with him, so I can ask the vet for what you said.
    What makes this all worse is, my dad just got laid off from his job.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Purely anecdotal, but TOTW sends my girls into itching frenzies and yeasty ears/lips/feet.  While it looks great on paper, there is something in there that they are intolerant of.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Trust me, I understand -- there are times when living at home still really sucks.  Been THERE too!! *sigh*

    • Gold Top Dog

    Well, good news and bad news.

    Bad news- I went to the vet with him and told the vet that I think he should have it tested. The vet looked at his ears and insited that they were itchy because they were "just dirty". He said it didnt look like there was any infection and that we need to clean them more often....  And of course, I tried telling him that I think he should do the test anyways but my dad just listen to the vet and bought a bottle of ear cleaner. I tired telling him over and over that he should have the test done... but he just got pissed off and kept asking why should he do what I say when the vet said they just need to be cleaned...  Angry

    Good news- He got a small bag of Wellness for Jack, and he has been on it for a few days now and seems to be improving a little bit.

    If it doesnt keep improving, he'll go back to the vet and hopfully I can get my dad to agree to the test.