Traditional chinese medicine for dogs

 Have you tried PMing slr2crmeg or Callie?  Those are the first two that jumped to my mind...  Good luck.

Absolutely -- we use it (and have used it for several years) for our dogs and I have seen MANY times where Dr. DiNatale picked up something that other vets couldn't or didn't.  If you want to email or pm me I'll be happy to give you more details. 

The exam is completely different -- among other things a well-trained TCVM vet can look at the tongue and literally know which area of the body isn't functioning well just by not only the general appearance but which parts of the tongue may be a particular color (and frankly, even after as many years as I've seen them do this that gets downright awesome!)

 Also, during the exam they feel various pulse points all over the body -- and how the pulse presents itself (how strong or weak blood moves thru the area, or 'how' the pulses differ, can tell them much about the blood flow to a particular area of the body.  The qi (say "chee";) is the energy pathway of the body -- that's what the needles are for, literally to help unblock areas where the qi isn't reaching properly.  That "energy highway" has much to do with the circulatory system so it's part of their exam.

If you have a particular practitioner all picked out fine but if you don't, if you go to the http://www.TCVM.com website there isa  locator on the left.  UNDER that is a sentence link that will give you a list of Canadian practitioners (the locator unfortunately is only ones in the States).    Holler fi I can help.  And yes, I would also second you pm or email slr2meg -- she's used TCVM on Pirate with great success as well.  I think bevolasvegas also does.

Yes, Pirate goes to the same office that Callie's dogs go do, but we see her partner. It's been great for his seizures. I wish I would have STARTED with TCVM, instead of going straight to seizure drugs...I probably would have saved myself a world of trouble. It's true that it's a completely different kind of vet visit - we're usually there WITH Dr. Fasano for 45 minutes or so. She's usually either in the room with us, or she'll come in and out, depending on how busy she is.

Just TRY it. I have absolutely no regrets about using TCVM.

 Thank you! :-) I actually bought the Four Paws Five Directions book because of the references in the other forum. I am half way through, so I am getting a good idea how it's done.

I am mainly after feedback/testimonials on it's success. Our new vet is really an amazing guy, but I feel that he's limited by the science he's using. I feel that a different angle is needed, so I'm looking into other options.

Unfortunately cannot use the locator, because we are in Canada. There is one TCM vet in the area. I guess the other thing would be, that since not all vets have been created equal, I assume that not all TCM vets were created equal either? How can one access whether the practitioner is a good one?

Chuffy

 Have you tried PMing slr2crmeg or Callie?

How do I try them? Doesn't seem to have search for users I can find.

 They have replied to this thread, so you can click the "contact" button on their replies

babelfish

I actually bought the Four Paws Five Directions book because of the references in the other forum. I am half way through, so I am getting a good idea how it's done.

Oh man - are you actually reading straight though?! I read the first few chapters and have used the index to look up what I need to know. It's waaaay over my head!

babelfish

How can one access whether the practitioner is a good one?

I would go by the same rules as I do picking a regular vet, I suppose. You know, is their office clean and not smelly? Are the front desk staff friendly and helpful? Is my pet comfortable with the vet themselves, and the techs?

sl2crmeg

Oh man - are you actually reading straight though?!

Yeah, I am. I read everything that way, don't want to miss something important :-)

re: picking a vet
Well, our previous vets had nice clean offices and friendly staff, that doesn't really say much about their knowledge and capabilities though. However, it seems we have only one TCVM in Ontario anyway, the rest just to acupuncture and things but not diagnostics.

calliecritturs

http://www.TCVM.com website there isa  locator on the left.  UNDER that is a sentence link that will give you a list of Canadian practitioners (the locator unfortunately is only ones in the States).    Holler fi I can help. 

Right under that locator is a SENTENCE that is a link. "TCVM Practioners Outside the USA"  There are several TCVM vets in Ontario -- and no, they don't just do acupuncture.  Being 'certified' and on the list means everyone has pretty significant experience but when they specialize or get that further certification in herbology or such -- that's above and beyond.

http://216.69.164.146/vetFinding.asp?qtype=outofUSA -- that will take you there as well -- there are several in various places in Ontario.  I *think* it was Ian Buffett I met at Dr. DiNatale's a few months ago when he came down for some additonal training.  He's not a new vet but he's not super experienced in TCVM, but he examined Billy and honestly I really liked him.  (I'm lucky -- I often get to meet vets who have come down here for extra training - I never know who is gonna be there when I take my dogs in. *smile*). 

If you look down that list you'll see Cheryl Schwartz (she's the one who wrote Four Paws Five Directions ;).   

If you really need extra input on a situation you think is difficult, then go to the contact list and email Barbara and tell her what you are dealing with and ask her if they know which vet might be the best choice for you.  You aren't asking "good or bad" just who might have experience to dovetail with what you need.  But feel free to tell her you heard about them via Pirate's Mom, Megan and Billy's Mom, Callie.  Barbara isn't a vet -- she's sort of the 'office manager' type up there but she helps keep everything organized (and her English is way better than Dr. Xie's -- right Megan???)

If you go to Faculty and look down the list you'll see Dr. DiNatale (which is who I go to).  She helps Dr. Xie teach all over the world. 

Now -- look across from my name at the top of my post here -- all the way on the right you'll see "Reply" "Favorites" and "Contact" -- if you click on Contact you can email me (or Megan) if you want more help. 

When I'm picking a vet or recommending to someone I tend to look for experience first.  I'm not interested in a big practice (and I typically tell folks NOT to choose the one "holistic" vet on staff in a big vet practice -- they tend to be there as the token holistic vet, NOT for serious stuff).  I might instead choose the one person that's the hardest to get hold of -- they may not have a receptionist or a fancy office, but if they're BUSY that's probably because they're good. 

To be completely bluntly honest, a lot of holistic vets tend not to "Play well with others".  That probably wasn't their strong suit in school.  They have ditched a large share of how they were 'taught' in favor or doing something different that they believe in so they may not appear "typical".  They may have structured their practice around their own home life.  For example -- Dr. DiNatale has office hours Monday thru Thursday. THAT IS ALL!!!  No Friday, No Saturday, No Sunda.  Nope. BUT one day she's open until 8 (and she is booked SO solidly in advance it's not funny) so that makes it so I can get there and not miss work. 

If you call someone and they don't call you right back -- don't let that discourage you -- they may not have office staff.   That may be THEIR choice to keep their practice small and affordable. 

Or they may have a receptionist who is very protective so you ask questions about the vet, how they came to do TCVM, how LONG they've done it, etc.  But they may try really hard not to let the vet take on more than they should (and some receptionists can be a royal p.i.t.behind.)

Call everyone you can possibly get to -- and THEN decide.  I think there are like 17 in Ontario and I dunno where you are specifically.  Feel free to email me if I can help. 

babelfish

Anybody has positive experience with TCM for dogs? Particularly for diagnostic of mysterious conditions?

We are using it with my dobe.  He has an autoimmune disorder which causes muscle wasting in his rear legs.  He wasn't diagnosed by our holistic vet, but as soon as the diagnosis was made, both his neurologist, & internist recommended that I bring in a holisitic vet to help with his case. 

When Bevo was diagnosed, our internist bluntly told me that he "hoped" that we could, eventually, get Bevo down to every other day doses of prednisone, but realistically, he thought that Bev would have to take pred daily for the rest of his life.  With the help of our holisitic vet, Bevo has been completely off prednisone for almost six months, & his condition seems to be very stable. 

We use homotoxicology, along with a few other herbs, & flower essences.  I honestly don't understand how the stuff works, but I see the results in my boy, & that's enough to make a believer out of me.  I would love to learn more, but I'm not really sure where to start.

calliecritturs

Right under that locator is a SENTENCE that is a link. "TCVM Practioners Outside the USA"

 Well, look how dumb I am, didn't see that there :-)

Thank you so much for all the help, I will got through all this and see where it takes me. I might take you up on your offer of further help.

Thank you! :-)
Jana

Dear Amanda.

Thank you so much for sharing that with me! This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for - trying to see how well this stuff can actually work.
One of our gal's issues is similar to autoimmune, thought not exactly. More over, she has a slew of diagnosed issues and some nobody was able to figure out at all. While we are working on the diagnosed ones and some of them are really getting better, some of them are going unchecked at this time, because the treatment for those would interfere with treatments for others. Mainly, I want to figure out the unsolved issues and find a connection. Because I don't believe one can have 50 things wrong with them without some underlying reason.

Our new vet is really great, working hard and spending extra time online with me, and as I said some of the stuff is responding beautifuly. But I feel he is limited by the western science and a different angle is needed.

ONe of the things *I* insist on (and you kinda have to MAKE this possible) is for my regular vet and my holistic vet to work **together**.  If one does a test (usually the regular vet) you send the results to both, if meds are changed you tell BOTH .... it makes for extra work for you, the owner, because you kinda facilitate this but it makes for awesome vet care and the vets tend to learn to respect each other and eagerly work together. 

and p.s. -- homotoxicology is pretty darned cutting edge stuff.  It's homeopathy that uses TCVM to work.  But the underlying 'theory' of it is that within our own DNA in our blood there lies "cell memory" that literally is a record by the body of everything that's ever been 'wrong' or 'right' in the body.  Medical science knows "cell memory" exists but they tend to rely on things that are measurable (like titers) and even then most allopathic doctors/vets want to give that med or that vaccine AGAIN rather than test to see if the body might show immunity. 

Homotoxicology is the treatment of deep disease in the body using homeopathy plus one drop of the patient's blood which is then used to create a "remedy" specific for that patient.  Literally the patient's own blood is diluted and used with other appropriate homeopathic remedies and then injected along acupuncture points (which target particular body systems) to deliver that 'remedy' where it needs to go.

It uses similar science to vaccines except for the treatment of disease rather than prevention.  Tink and Billy both get homotoxicology and ... to be honest ... so do I.  (It's made a huge difference in the psoriasis and arthritis I deal with).

I'm going to see Dr. Demers tomorrow (for Billy) and I"ll see if he knows anyone near you.  I'll also ask MY practitioner tonight if he's aware of any organizations up in Canada that might direct you to someone. 

calliecritturs

ONe of the things *I* insist on (and you kinda have to MAKE this possible) is for my regular vet and my holistic vet to work **together**.  If one does a test (usually the regular vet) you send the results to both, if meds are changed you tell BOTH .... it makes for extra work for you, the owner, because you kinda facilitate this but it makes for awesome vet care and the vets tend to learn to respect each other and eagerly work together. 

I'm just going to bold that statement because it's very important that all of you vets are kept in the loop. 

At the height of Bevo's problems, I had nine different doctors working on his case. (His regular vet, a surgeon, two neurrologists, two internists, a physical therapy specialist, an accupuncturist, & his holistic.)  With that many docs, I had to do tons of work to keep everyone informed, but I knew how important it was that everyone knew what was going on.