Spaying at a young age....

Golden Tails

Thats all I'm going to say on this subject - otherwise I'll explode and say things I might regret.

LOL  I have to do that all the time. 

Golden Tails

The shelter I work for has been known to send in preg cats and dogs and they come back spayed. Spaying is not JUST for unwanted litters (however that is about %95 of it) but neutering males cuts down agression tremendusly!

Broadly, this is often true.  It was NOT true for my dog, and I know he is not an isolated case either.  Neutering made him much worse.

Golden Tails

And, eliminates the chances of prostate cancer

I'm not sure this is true.... I think it does reduce the risk, but doesn't eliminate it.  The lack of testosterone may also increase the risk of other cancers.  It can also affect coat quality, metabolism, activity level and drive.

Neutering is not the only option, or the best one, in every single case.  There are pros AND cons to the op for both sexes.  Each person should consider their circumstances, the dog's age, their temperament, their breed or type and and their temperament.

RidgebackGermansShep

Interesting thread, i was just thinking about when i should have Jo spayed. I was thinking about 6 mos because i would hate for her to have a heat. My breeder said either before heat or 3 mos after heat, and to talk to my vet about it.

I think with larger breeds, later is better.  I don't know much about Dobermans.  What is the incidence of dysplasia in the breed?  Neutering DOES affect physical growth and development.

An interesting link:

http://www.littleriverlabs.com/neuter.htm

Snippet:

If one conducted a research of the literature on the detrimental effects on physiological development associated with sex hormone deficiencies during adolescent development in any other species other than the dog and cat, one will find a wealth of literature stressing the importance of sex hormones for sound physiological, endocrine and metabolic development.

 I will readily admit that I can be over-zealous on the spay/neuter boat. When you spend a good deal of your adult working life euthanizing the results of unwanted litters, it has a way of making you want to spay or neuter anything that is walking. All of the shelters I have been involved with have altered at 8 weeks/2.5 lbs and had very few problems. Two of my girls were done at 8 weeks and have been fine. I won't pretend that there aren't problems with pediatric spay/neuter - of course there are, and whenever we get a pup from a breeder, I will wait closer to the 6 month mark to alter; however, it is the lesser of two evils in a shelter environment with the "promise you'll alter your new dog" compliance so low.

I do believe that the average pet owner should have their dog altered. One of my shelters had a "3 strikes" ordinance - the first two times an intact dog was caught running loose, the owner would have to pay a fine to pick their dog up, but that was it. The 3rd time, however, was a mandatory spay/neuter. It was an attempt to treat people as though they are inherently responsible beings and that everyone has an accident now and then. Our "repeat offender" list was enormous. It was the same dogs and/or the same owners coming in time after time, and oddly enough, not even purebred dogs all the time! The people would fight tooth and nail to keep from getting their dogs altered; meanwhile, Fido has been picked up by AC for the 3rd time and has sired who knows how many litters in the area that week. Based on my experience, I don't believe that treating people as if they are responsible is the way to solve pet overpopulation, at this stage of the problem.

Even my family members, well-meaning AND intelligent though they are, simply do not understand the responsibility that goes along with having an unaltered dog. They like their dogs to play with other dogs routinely, be let off leash at the park, and they are happy if Fido obeys commands 75% of the time they are given. They want companion animals and that is why I talked each and every one of them into altering their dogs - they weren't going to be shown or titled, and no one needed to be given the extra responsibility of having an intact dog to care for.

The spay/neuter campaign will not end pet overpopulation in itself; it needs to be combined with mass public education about responsible pet ownership, which will ultimately lead most people to spay/neuter their pets on their own behalf. Just as it was customary 50 years ago to let Fido have litter after litter, we can hope that 50 years from now, it will be customary to spay/neuter your pet unless the owner has specific plans for that animal or TRULY understands the responsibilities that go along with keeping an intact animal.

stormyknight

They like their dogs to play with other dogs routinely, be let off leash at the park, and they are happy if Fido obeys commands 75% of the time they are given.

Intact dogs can DO that!

There's this.... weirdness about intact animals, lately, that I've noticed. It's all with good pet owners. "Ohhh, he can't play with a girl, he's not fixed yet". Whaaaat? Intact dogs can interact fine, just like intact humans, as long as nobody's receptive. Of course, if one cannot keep Fido contained, he should be altered, but then maybe we should question whether that home is suitable for Fido. Cutting off testicles doesn't make dogs forget how to dig, leap, or climb to escape.

jennie_c_d

Of course, if one cannot keep Fido contained, he should be altered, but then maybe we should question whether that home is suitable for Fido.

My exact thoughts.  I don't think it would be reasonable to prevent such people owning dogs - how would that be enforced? - but I still think education is the answer.  The education that goes into convincing people to NEUTER!!!!! would be better directed convincing them to contain and care for the animal properly..... whether said beast is neutered or not.  That covers all bases, neutering only covers one, and the jury is still out on the alleged health benefits.

jennie_c_d

stormyknight

They like their dogs to play with other dogs routinely, be let off leash at the park, and they are happy if Fido obeys commands 75% of the time they are given.

 

Intact dogs can DO that!

 

There's this.... weirdness about intact animals, lately, that I've noticed. It's all with good pet owners. "Ohhh, he can't play with a girl, he's not fixed yet". Whaaaat? Intact dogs can interact fine, just like intact humans, as long as nobody's receptive. Of course, if one cannot keep Fido contained, he should be altered, but then maybe we should question whether that home is suitable for Fido. Cutting off testicles doesn't make dogs forget how to dig, leap, or climb to escape.

I didn't mean to imply that intact dogs can't do that. I worded my statement poorly. I meant to say that the owners want to do all of these things without a second thought. It isn't a matter of lack of education or malicious intent, but rather just the way they go about living with their dogs. They are just looking for a companion and having a dog with a 75% recall is fine with them. If I have an intact dog, I am not satisfied with a reliable recall 75% of the time. If my dog is intact, he had better have a fool-proof recall beyond a shadow of a doubt in order to be off leash, anywhere. They want to take their dog to the dog park to socialize and not have to ask the other two dozen dogs owners "Is your female dog spayed/intact/in heat?" - they simply want to let their dog go in the park and play. 

I am not saying that these are bad qualities in owners - I think many "average owners" fit into this category and do just fine with their altered dogs that fit into their lifestyle. What I am saying is that the rules you live by can (and in some cases, should) change when dealing with an intact dog and many households do not want to deal with those changes. 

I also noticed that I forgot to mention that I am not a spay/neuter lunatic when it comes to show dogs, responsible breeders, etc. It is average Joe Blow who wants to keep his intact male intact "just because" without other reason, and usually without being seriously willing to make the basic changes to protect his intact dog as well as others, that drives me nuts.

Let's face reality... "Fixing" the animal is the logic answer because it is 'convenient'.

For the rescues that come through, everyone gets S/N before going to their forever home. I don't love early S/N, but I'd rather do that than risk a litter.

For my own animals, they will all be S/N at two years old or older. Rosco and Lexi were done before we brought them home from rescue, and Luna will be done after (and if) she has a litter with her breeder. One and done! I can't wait for that day, because I get totally stressed out about having an intact female.

I made the 18 month + decision after seeing several dogs from the same litters, some S/N early, and some done later. I was really struck by how underdeveloped the earlier S/N dogs were, and am more comfortable letting the dogs reach maturity first. JMPO We'll bite the bullet and go the extra mile to avoid an oops while our dogs are intact.

For the general public I think 6 months - 1 year makes the most sense.
 

jdata

If it becomes 'work' that is a turn off to a lot of 'convenient' pet owners.

This is true, but it reminds me of Anne's post earlier, that her dog is now spay incontinent, and other less dedicated owners (those who might not be responsible enough to comply with a spay/neuter contract, perhaps??) would punish or relinquish such a dog for "peeing all over the house" instead of understanding the cause and treatment for spay incontinence.  Most shelters give no information of this possibility, imo.  Yes, it's the owner's responsibility to educate themselves, but there's a trust factor there that owners assume the shelter is doing the best for the dog.  (Admittedly, *most* are, a few are not.)

I consider the rescue where I got Gracie to be a phenomenal shelter, and their vet even more outstanding, but they didn't tell me about the possibility of spay incontinence until I asked about it when things started happening with G.  I really have begun to think that there's a general black hole where people don't talk about dog reproduction except to state "spay/neuter for the well-being of your dog and to control the overpopulation."  I bet the average pet owner has no clue when or how often their female goes into heat, let alone how long gestation is.... and it seems like nobody else is talking about it except on dog boards and among those who are seriously involved in dog sports.

People buy more house than they can afford, because the bank tells them it's ok.  They don't educate themselves and are surprised when they can't find a decent job.  They have children when they can't take care of themselves.  They drink and get behind the wheel, despite years and years of education and public awareness.  Why should they be any different with their pets?  Do we do like the AR people want and just outright do away with pet ownership?  Or do we struggle with all our human weaknesses and do the best we can for the unwanted dogs and cats?  Is it the best answer, of course not.  Is it a long term solution, of course not.  It is what it is and you can wish it were different and bemoan the sad facts but there it is and the puppies just keep coming.

I agree, Jackie... they do just keep coming.

I support efforts to make spay/neuter cheaper for those who don't have the income to afford it.  There are others who can afford to do it,but don't want to because, although they know nothing about breeding, they might want a piece of their current dog to "live on" in a future generation.  Those are the ones who get us into as much trouble as the folks who simply can't afford it.  I think low-cost spay/neuter clinics, more education, and, yep, keep the shelter pups spayed/neutered is the best we can do.

For my personal dogs, I will choose to wait until they are between 18-24 months of age before being spayed or neutered. 

Two of my females were spayed around 24 months, & they have no issues.  The other one was spayed at 5 months of age, & she has spay incontinence issues.  Drugs do control this, but I think that it's kinda sad that, at 2 years old, she's already having to take drugs to keep her from dribbling. 

jdata

Control and containment is not the absolute answer.

Well, actually.....control and containment is the absolute answer. If those two things were in place you wouldn't have oops litters! But realistically, they are also what people fail to do! That's where the next step - castration - comes into play, for those who cannot for whatever reason fully contain or control their pets. Fortunately it fixes the puppy issue, but you still have the control/containment issue, which is a huge problem with irresponsible owners!  

Mod note: Post moved to Health/Repro&Contra.