Gosh, I'm editing this again to say I **JUST** saw your post. I was working backwards, not realizing I'd missed so much in a few hours so please don't think the fact that this follows the other two means I didn't care. I literally was just responding to the posts as I saw them.
NOW to address this -- which was the most important and I inadvertently left it for last!! Again, I am SO sorry.
cerberusdog
All I can say is wow Callie. You do not know me or my vet. My personal vet saved my rottie mix from parvo using a homeopathic treatment, so maybe you need to find a better vet if you do not trust yours. Believe it or not I emailed the internal specialist this morning at 11am and by 2pm had a return email stating that they both approved of use of multiple liver protectant and even gave me the name of a store about 30 minutes from my house that they would recommend using if we decided to go with natural herbs vs what they sell at the office.
No way did I mean to be cutting in any way at all -- most vets are *not* that open-minded and you didn't mention to me that you were at all familiar with homeopathy when we spoke.
Please understand -- it is heart-breaking in the extreme because I get to talk to a ton of people and so often I've seen vets belittle people for wanting to do something 'extra' or herbal. One person (who will pipe up if they want to) was flatly bullied by an emergency room vet because he pushed for a transfusion and the emergency vet told him it was 'cruel" to even try.
I've seen vets turn a blind eye because it was "a holiday weekend" and tell people to "bring the dog in Monday and we'll take a look" because they didn't want to see a dog with a packed cell volume of 12 on a Friday or the dog who has been vomiting all week and the vet doesn't even suggest a bloodtest or tell someone it can be done.
So honestly, sometimes I'm standing out here on my soapbox trying to make sure that someone doesn't read what someone *else* posted and draw the wrong conclusions from it. It is abundantly clear to me that you go way above and beyond for your animals, and igven your own medical background that is an *awesome* thing. I wasn't trying to say you weren't taking care of yours, but mostly I was trying to let lurkers know that there is a real sense of urgency about some of this stuff.
Just as a case in point **sigh** I spent a couple more hours on the phone Saturday nite with a lady who's on dial-up and she hasn't been able to stay online long enough to read the whole thread (and she has no cell access out where she lives). And one of her queries was that since others were waiting to see what the vet says was there any real reason to do milk thistle now or just wait until she saw a problem.
It was a classic case of the thing that can be my waking nightmare -- someone reading a post really quick, and walking away with a conclusion that's not quite accurate.
It isn't because anyone has said anything 'bad' or negative -- it's just a fact of human nature ... sometimes we have to read things quick and decide. So mostly I'm just trying to make sure that people don't get the wrong impression and sometimes I screw up and gie *others* the wrong impression.
I apologize profusely -- I did NOT in any way mean to make you feel bad or give *you* a hard time. I am SORRY, and I truly hope you accept my apology in the true spirit I mean it
I'm not one to just say "sorry" -- an apology doesn't just need to be blindly offered -- when you've truly wounded someone you need to wait for acceptance and make sure you repaired it as much as possible..
cerberusdog
Just like you mentioned giving Calypso's pills with liverwurst.....why would I chose to give a high fat and salt product to a dog that has the potential for kidney problems...salt intake needs to be monitored very closely. But do I bash you, no I respect your opinion and then form my own.
You're absolutely right -- and the simple reason for it was the fact that at the time I was absolutely **desperate** to keep him happy about food, happy about taking this enormous wad of medicine/herbs and STUFF and suddenly I couldn't use dairy any more to do it. Part of the concern was that cyclosporine so easily causes a stricture and I was cautioned beyond belief to make SURE the pill slid down the throat so I was looking for slippery -- those big 100 mg pils were difficult for Billy to swallow so "slippery" was huge.
At the same time -- I had an elderly sheltie-corgi mix go thru a huge liver infection and between the meds both dogs took it was taking me about 2 hours a week just to divide them up into daily batches sorted out but because they were mostly meds that dissolved too quickly I had to give them their meds after their meal not IN their meal. I had to keep it do-able for all 4 dogs and make sure that the meds went down the hatch and were completely swallowed and digested. I could *cut* the liverwurst up, push the pills in and not have to touch it (I have severe psoriasis and gloves are awkward with sticky stuff when you're dealing with 50 or more pills at a time -- and with all the tea pills that was the quantity -- danged rolly little things -- that's just by way of explanation -- the skin thing is a *me* thing that I have to cope with).
I absolutely agree with you that liverwurst does have added salt (WAY too mcuh salt and it's a human deli meat -- it has more preservatives and yuck in it than is my preference too) BUT it worked. The amount given was pretty minmal overall -- and best of all -- he was excited to take it and so were the others. No hesitance, no reluctance to take it. It could also be cut up ahead of time so it wasn't a huge mess to deal with a meal times.
As soon as practical I moved to using baby food meat and veggie -- but that has to be done with a spoon. That wasn't workable while Foxy was around, but it is probably my favorite now. Far better quality for them - not as "slippery" but it works for most things.
Liverwurst is simply attractive enough and slippery enough that it *works*. In the early days of this disease it is so unbelievably critical to keep them eating and keep them *excited* about food and happy about all the extra attention that the benefits outweighed the difficulties. I know many folks battle that same thing which is why I offer it as a suggestion -- it's less dangerous than pilling them (as cautioned by a vet).
But by all means -- when you disagree or see a glitch with something don't hesitate to mention it. That's part of what the discussion i for. That's where good learning takes place for all involved here -- we try hard not to bash here -- I can't emphasize that strongly enough. And if you felt I was heavy handed above I TRULY am sorry, for it was not in any way my intention.
But mentioning stuff like this -- that's GOOD input. But a lot of times people just think they can't do anything other than what they've always done. They've always put pills in cheese or cream cheese, or they've always "hiddne" them in hot dogs (eww, nitrite city *sigh*) -- but simply to try to give folks more options and techniques.
cerberusdog
I have dealt with more diseases and injuries that any one pet owner should ever have to in their life time, but I know St Francis does not give me any more than I can handle so we just keep doing what we can for them.
No you are absolutely right -- He *doesn't* give us more than we can handle -- but I do think (seriously) that sometimes St. Francis has a short list of those of us -- like you and I -- to send these animals to because there is a purpose in all of this. Sometimes for the animals. Sometimes for the people. I don't mean "short list" to say over-burdened (because I tend to find that when I'm called on to go the extra mile for an animal that's been 'sent' to me that the money will be there to do the right thing for them, and the energy and time will be there for me as well -- thankfully!)
those folks like you and I who have experienced a lot of severe illnesses and injuries -- sometimes we 'get' those simply because WE respond where other folks dont. Because we're not afraid of them. That's one VERY GOOD thing.
**IT IS BECAUSE** you are so experienced that you are valuable. Because Heaven knows there are a ton of problems out there and sometimes people are very short on wisdom of how to deal with this stuff.
I've seen folks battle IMHA who have never had to take a pill in their own lives, much less give one to a dog. The very idea for some folks is terrifying -- but knowing that folks exist like we see on this thread, and elsewhere in this forum who simply roll over and do what needs to be done -- that's encouraging in a big way for folks.
and boy, you said a mouthful in that last line I couldn't agree more!!! -- "so we just keep doing what we can for them". And sometimes, even if that isn't perfect the *best* we can do is fine .. until we can do better, or until we know better or until we have another hand or a little more money.
cerberusdog
I have written this response 4 different times today as I have calmed down. Maybe this is not the best place for me to find support.
I appreciate your efforts more than you can know. I've done that a million different times in other situations. I truly hope you can accept my apologies and find support here.