AIHA or IMHA

Johnny&Tessy

She'll sit near the stove the whole time it's cooking.

Clop will sit near the kitchen no matter what I am making.

Clop will eat just about anything.  She loves to eat strawberrys, watermelon, cucumber, lettuce (!) - just about anything I give her.  Of course careful not to give raisins, grapes, onions, chocolate.  But she loves fruits and veggies.  About the only fruits she won't eat are citrus.  She likes Apples.

She also loves to eat icecubes.  

=)

Does anybody know if oatmeal/rolled oats is alright for dogs with AIHA?

 Johnny,

No harm will come to Tessy if you feed her oats.  Its a filler used a lot in dog foods and natural dog treats, many home made dog treats with natural ingredients use rolled oats. 

Oats are very healthy, lots of fiber.  

Some dogs don't do grains very well.  Meaning any grain such as Corn, Wheat, etc.  Thats why there is grain free dog food like "Barking at the Moon" and "Wellness Core" out there. 

Are you making her treats?  Or just like letting her eat some oatmeal with you at breakfast?

I used to give it to her all the time but since she got sick I've been avoiding it for the most part.  I know that with this disease foods like wheat, soy, corn, etc. are not supposed to be given so I wasn't too sure how close it would be to wheat.

Tessy loves it!

Johnny&Tessy

I know that with this disease foods like wheat, soy, corn, etc. are not supposed to be given

I never read that about IMHA.  I happen to feed my dog's a grain free food.  But I did give her rice with chicken once when her stomach was upset.  Can you tell me where you heard IMHA dogs are not suppose to have wheat, soy or corn?  In fact I'm sure there is wheat in some of the treats I give her. 

We really need to have a clearing house for all this info as we gain this knowlege on our IMHA journeys.

GratefulDawg....this information came from a very reliable source....Dr. Dodds.  She said to avoid these and never give them to a dog with AIHA.  I'm not sure of the logic behind it...maybe something to do with how the body digests it?  I'll ask her when I get a chance.  That was one of the first things she stressed on me when she told me what was good to feed Tessy.

 Johnny - Thanks for the info.  Maybe she is concerned that if the dog is allergic to grain that it will cause an immune response?  Well forget what I said about the oatmeal then.  I would check with Dr Dodds about that if you're concerned.  I am amazed at how I learn new things about this almost every day.

Have a great weekend.

I find I get to the point where I read so much it gives me a headache.  Most of the time it makes me even more confused because it seems there's no real treatment protocol for doctors to follow.  Sure there's lots of similarities but if you take the same sick dog to 5 different doctors then you'll more than likely get 4 or 5 different ways to treat it.  Almost makes a person wonder.

Welcome to the wonderful world of "medical opinion" -- it DOES differ.  And it's impacted by the vet's experience, education, and their "leaning" as to holistic, traditional, etc.  It can even be influenced in large part by that vet's personal experience and clients -- I know MY 'regular' vet has changed several of his treatment protocols in light of things that have happened with my dogs, and IMHA in particular.  He deals differently with chemicals and which companies he uses and trusts.

It's not easy for laypeople like us to really understand that amount of trust a vet has to put in the pharmaceutical companies they deal with.  Because of the way they are educated essentially they really are trained the X mg of ABC drug given to 75% of those studied is supposed to have a "positive effect".  But then when they are confronted with a dog who wound up getting IMHA from too many vaccines or chemicals it can really rock a vet's world IF THEY LET IT.

That's why a lot of vets don't even ASK whether the dog has had vaccinations or whatever ... they really don't want to KNOW the cause.  They simply want to 'treat'.  And that can be darned hard.

Most grains will create or exacerbate "inflammation" in the body -- that's not something typically subscribed to by regular "allopathic" vets mostly because most vet schools are primarily supported grant-wise by companies that manufacture Science Diet, IV formulas, etc. -- these are foods they USE in vet school to rule out "owner caused error" and it's a constant for them.

BUT they all contain grain ... so if you take that away from an allopathic vet they're at a loss because other foods aren't "studied" or aren't a known quantity to them.

It's the most holistic leanings that have brought out these ideas -- TCVM in particular is heavy into foods -- not just grains causing inflammation but things like chicken actually causing "heat" (which is inflammation) in the body.  A healthy dog can often eat it without problem.  But not other dogs.

But this is also why some dogs are erroneously categorized as having "chicken allergy" when it's not an allergy -- it's either an intolerance OR it's simply that the chicken exacerbated inflammation that was already developing in the body.

But if you look closely at Dr. Dodd's website -- she's also going to tell you that light/white colored dogs (like buffy coat or parti-colored cockers like Tessy and Billy) are almost hard-wired for IMHA.  MUCH higher prevalence of dogs of a light coat color having IMHA than darker ones.

quick question, i'm sick and i wasn't the one giving cooper is meds tonight. i am pretty sure my husband didn't remember to give cooper his cyclosporine tonight. it's 3 hours past when he is supposed to get it. should i give it to him now or just wait until his morning dose????

Sorry to hear of your setback.  Don't take my word on this but I think that a drug like cyclosporine is not AS important to give as drugs like prednisone and azathioprine.  If it were me I would give it to him but I may be wrong.  Either way I would still try ot get ahold of the doctor just to make sure.  I've heard of several people who only give the cyclosporine for 5 days and then none on the weekends.  If you check out Dr. Dodds protocol she actually makes reference to this.  SO....to me...to miss a dose of cyclosporine is not all that huge of a deal (I THINK). 

Quoted from Dr. Dodds  .......  "For severe cases, other immunosuppressive therapy is given. We prefer cyclosporine (Sandimmune, 100mg/mL oral syrup) to cyclophosphamide (Cytoxan) and give it at 10 mg/kg for 5 days, rest 2 days, then at 5 mg/kg for another 5 days. The lower dose is repeated after a 2 day rest on a 5 days on, 2 days off cycle as long as is needed (usually 2-3 courses of 5 days)."

 If this is the only drug Cooper is on then I would consider administering it again.

Hope this helps....give Cooper hugs from Tessy & I.

AT 3 hours past I would have given it to him (and given him a bit of food to help the stomach).  But now you know why I use the pill caddys -- and dang -- even the meds that can't be exposed to air (I used to cut up the foil blister packs and put them individually in the caddys'  I know you use them, but I'm just mentioning for those "lurking". 

Note:  her concern is valid -- with cyclosporine you have to give it completely on a schedule.  While Billy was taking it I went for a year and a half getting up on Saturday/Sunday morning the same time I got up during the week JUST so he could keep on that same inflexible schedule ... then I'd go back to bed if that was possible.  But when they say these meds have to be given every 12 hours THEY MEAN IT because they don't want one dose colliding with another in the stomach.

So if you have to do a "late" dose say at 1:00 a.m., then you give tomorrow's a.m. dose at say 11:30 a.m. and then that night's dose at 10:00 (splitting the time difference again and staggering the next two times of administration) - at least that's what I did, but I think I got SO scared after just **one** time of missing a med that I never ever was late again.

It's difficult for someone just casually reading this to know the incredible pressure you feel with these meds to do it *****EXACTLY***** as they tell you to with no variation whatsoever.

Calliecritturs.....what is your knowledge with regards to pulse dosing or giving the cyclosporine on a 5 days on 2 days off routine?  I ask because Tessy takes it 24/7 without any days off.  I often wonder if this is the best way for her to go.

I know nothing for sure and, in fact, haven't heard they were doing it.  I know I've had them try such stuff with prednisone (which tends to be pretty darned ineffective to my mind) even on ME. 

Cyclosporine is all about the "level" the cyclsoporine reaches in the body -- more than the individual am/pm pills -- which is why it is so critical to avoid stuff that may inhibit the levels/absorption in the body.  AND to monitor that level by having blood drawn periodically. 

 I would tell you to continue to monitor the levels -- and if you're doing ALL you can to keep what's being given to her to be absorbed, then once that "target" is reached then they can begin to evaluate and reduce it. 

 From a practical standpoint, I would rather see my dog take less and take it consistently, than to "pulse" it because those pills are so darned hard to digest and so darned hard for the liver to process, so if it were ME I'd want to be able to continue to hit it hard with milk thistle in order to help the body be protected on an ongoing basis, rather than giving the stomach a huge load to handle periodically. 

that's just my thots -- it's not something I've discussed with a vet or Dr. Dodds.

 Totally agree with Callie - totally stopping the Cyclo for 2 days would leave the immune system a chance to come back up and the dog could crash.  Keeping the Cyclo levels steady in the body is why Cyclo is given every 12 hours.  It has a 19 hour half life.  So it wears out too fast to give it once a day.  If you only gave it once a day it *would* be like pulsing because you are rollercoastering that level in the blood.  19 hours is too hard to keep on any sort of regular schedule so once every 12 hours keeps things easy.  

Also for like what happened with Cooper.  If you catch it 3 hours late then by all means still give the Cyclo because you are still within that 19 hour window.