Willow's platelets are low!

Hugs and prayers to you both at this time.  I totally understand about having the dog for fifty years and it wouldn't be enough.  Maggie and Ben I've had since pups and it seems unbelievable to me that we are close enough to the end, that something could happen any day.  Gah, I can't think about it right now (PMS). 

brookcove

Maggie and Ben I've had since pups and it seems unbelievable to me that we are close enough to the end, that something could happen any day.  Gah, I can't think about it right now (PMS). 

After loosing Bubblegum the way I did...all I have to say is DON'T THINK ABOUT IT!  I used to worry so about bloat...I used to worry that she was getting older...could see the grey setting in around some of her black spots...   I worked so hard at keeping her young and healthy....and sometimes I forgot to just enjoy what I had.   That is why I am so happy that Willow is feeling well.  ENJOY!

Oh, thanks guys so much.  She's still doing well today.  Thanks for the advice about the water too.  She's always got 4 or 5 bowls going-can you say spoiled brat, I never wanted her to have to leave the room if she was thirsty, LOL-but we will definately keep an eye on them that they are full. 

Yes, I'm totally comfortable with a tech drawing her blood.  I'm very lucky my cousin Laura works at our regular vets office.  She's in school to become a vet and is working there now so I'll ask her to do it.  I know she'll take good care of Willow.  She's family, ya know, it makes a difference.

She took her meds today, the doxy and the pred, we went for a ride for coffee, she's doing fine. 

I'm off to get ready for work. DH will be home from work for several weeks so she won't be alone at all during the day.  Which I'm really glad for. 

Thanks SO much everyone. 

dyan

and sometimes I forgot to just enjoy what I had

This is SO true Dyan.  I'm going to make sure I stop all the anticipatory sadness! 

willowchow

 

Please if you can send up a few prayers that this works for her.  I could have her 50 more years and I still wouldn't be ready to let her go. 

  The longer I have Jessie, the more I love her; I totally understand how you feel. I'll keep praying for her and hope the pred is the only treatment she needs. I'm so glad you're feeling better; hugs to you and Willow.
 

Thank you guys.

The vet called, she's negative for any of the other tick diseases.  So, that's ruled out as a cause.  Lyme doesn't normally cause this problem and she would of responded by now if that was it.

Tomorrow she's having an ultrasound to see if they see anything on the kidneys or in the abdominal area.  I'm leary, I want to know, but I don't want to know. 

Keeping positive, she's still feeling well and DH called and said she was on the deck most of the evening keeping the border patroled for cats. 

 I'm so sorry to hear the diagnosis Lori. Please know you are in our thoughts. With the ITP I'm sure they told you, but you'll want to keep her very stress free and calmer than normal until they get her levels responding again. I know the Pred is scary, truly I do, but it is necessary. They can recover from all the nasty pred side effects. Remember, she's gonna have ot go to the bathroom waaay more often than normal now.

Its thundering and Lightning now so I have to sign off but I will be back on later. 

Lori, the fact that you are "right on it" simply gives Willow a better shot, but it also makes the diagnostic period longer because there are no severe "symptoms" (as in a dog not able to stand, etc.) because you've thankfully caught it early.  That makes it more nerve-wracking on YOU, but at the same time just realize you are doing incredibly well ***BECAUSE*** you caught it while she was asytmptomatic.

Pred is scarey, but it's also a heck of a drug (yeah, this is ME the herb queen talking!!!!), and it's the least of the immune-suppressing drugs.

I know you don't do much that is alternative, however, please consider strongly giving Willow milk thistle.  Milk thistle will detox the liver and also the kidneys.  This is medically pretty well acceptable at this point -- when Billy was being treated for the IMHA frankly, none of the 'regular' vets cared at all, and when it was all over they were **astounded** that we hadn't killed his liver and kidneys with the amount of the drugs he'd been on.

Because Willow is prone to some kidney issues, you want to mitigate damage there if possible.  Even the ground herb milk thistle is SO helpful -- and giving LOTS of it.  They are studying silymarin all over the place at this point (that's the latin name for milk thistle) and the AKC is even funding a study of it now. 

If your vets want to talk to any of the vets Billy used, they can verify that it had no ill effects on any of the medicines and that it also truly helped protect the liver and kidneys.

Talk to your vet -- typically when milk thistle is used like this it's used in big doses (like 2-3 times the adult 'dose' -- which is just an arbitrary figure because it's an herb).  Just buy a good brand, and don't use anything "time-release" (diminishes the effectiveness).  Some vets like the tincture, some like the ground herb.  The general consensus is it just plain works and it's benign.

I understand SO well your concerns about pred -- but the milk thistle will help mitigate the damage the pred might cause so you lessen that risk.

Talk to your vets -- I'm not suggesting you do anything without their blessing.  Billy was on an absolute MAX dose of pred for about 5 months ... plus the huge doses of cyclosporine at the same time.  (They use both of those when the situation is immune-mediated.)

Another question for the vets -- did the platelets take a downturn after they started doxycycline or remain the same?

calliecritturs

I know you don't do much that is alternative, however, please consider strongly giving Willow milk thistle.  Milk thistle will detox the liver and also the kidneys.  This is medically pretty well acceptable at this point -- when Billy was being treated for the IMHA frankly, none of the 'regular' vets cared at all, and when it was all over they were **astounded** that we hadn't killed his liver and kidneys with the amount of the drugs he'd been on.

On this line,,,when Bubby was put on Pred when she was ill.... or maybe it was just Rimadyl ( another drug that scares me to death ) I ended up at a different vet than the one I work for...and mentioned that I was giving her Milk Thistle because of the drug...and he really shocked me by saying " by all means give her Milk Thistle" and then on top of it....actually prescribed it when writing out instructions and recommendations.

calliecritturs

did the platelets take a downturn after they started doxycycline or remain the same?

They've been up and down.  The last one we did Tuesday she was at 27, 000.  They did another CBC today so I'll know tomorrow where her numbers are after 4 doses of Pred.  She's on 40mg, twice a day--she's only 50 lbs.  It's usually prescribed at 1mg per lb. 

I will ask about giving her milk thistle too, she'll probably be OK with it.

GOOD NEWS!!!!---No cancer was found on the ultrasound today. 

The vet said it's an immune problem and she will need to stay on the Prednisone for a couple months, then they will try to wean her off and see if her platelets stay stable.  If they don't, she may need a maintenance dose of Prednisone for life.  Also, she will be seeing the vet frequently for blood work to check the platelets--probably weekly. 

She also said--NO further vaccines EVER for Willow.

I'm so relieved she doesn't have cancer, I cried when she called and told me, "Lori, everything looks good here!!"  I hadn't even been able to eat all day until she called.

I think I'll feel even better if we get increased platelets back tomorrow but she said for me not to get my hopes up or panic if we don't because it may be a little too soon. 

Thanks for thinking of her and all the advice.

willowchow

GOOD NEWS!!!!---No cancer was found on the ultrasound today.

Baby steps Lori.......one at a time. 

This is great news!

Lori -- that's not a huge dose of pred -- Billy was on 60 mg at 28 pounds! 

Have you ever given Willow the Knox Nutra Joint?  The reason I ask (and Megan will tell you this happened with Pirate as well even as young as he is) -- when they are on pred for a long time (and you *have* to with auto-immune ... you have to get the immune system to leave the body alone and along for *long enough* so that you can wean them off the pred and not have the body zoom right back at it again == so a slow slow slooooooooowwwwww wean off is best) --

but *when* they are on pred a long time like that, the pred messes with the consistency of the cartilage between the joints.  Now with a dog like Willow (and Billy) who already HAVE arthritis, this is difficult.  But Megan even saw it in Pirate.

So start *now* with the Knox Nutra Joint if you aren't already.  Yes, glucosamine and chondroitin are fine but they are *only* hydrators.  The Knox actually helps the body re-build the cartilage and it will help mitigate this damage so it just plain doesn't happen as much. 

For a 50 pound dog I'd give half a scoop once a day.  You can stir it in food, you can stir it into a small bit of yogurt or baby food or anything 'wet'.  It's tastey (kinda tastes like milk but it's a bit grainy). 

CLEAR THIS WITH THE VET -- it does have some calcium in it.  (that works with the connective tissue that's in the Knox - it's bovine cartilage and calcium).

Don't get the one with the G&C in it -- let your own vet guide you on how much glucosamine and chondroitin to use.  The amount they add is miniscule and it's pricey.  I find it in the Jello aisle of the grocery store-- it's an orange and white cannister (and be sure to get the one that is without aspartame - this one is 'unflavored';).

I know you worry about Will's arthritis -- and pred helps a bit initially but then it messes up the cartilage.  But it takes a month or so to really kick in so if you start it now you won't see much of an increase in the arthritis at all.

 If you need a source for milk thistle holler -- I used tincture on Billy and if I had to do it again I'd probably mix tincture and the herb caps -- somehow they are 'different' and I'd probably mix the two next time. 

Get yourself on one of the immune-mediated support boards.  YOU DID SO GOOD LORI -- I can't tell you that enough.  You **noticed** something wasn't right.  You keep TRACK and that is so incredibly awesome.

And I told you at the top of the thread, that your vet was doing a **good thing** by not just assuming this was tick disease.  Tell that vet she rocks!  Sometimes a slow diagnosis is agonizing -- but sometimes it saves lives!!

calliecritturs

Get yourself on one of the immune-mediated support boards.

Callie--Willow thanks you for all the time you spent typing out that info.  I will definately follow up on the milk thistle and Knox with her vet.  I think now she's going to have a triple wammy to her joints, already arthritis, Lyme and now this. 

If you could possibly PM me with where I can find the support board I'd be SOOO grateful. 

Thanks again to everyone.  It's funny when I found out her results the first person I told was DH, then I couldn't wait until I had a second to get on here to tell all of her friends. 

Lori

Lori, I've been following this thread.  I just don't chime in because I wouldn't know exactly what to recommend. 

Just wanted to say that I'm thrilled that the ultrasound came back clear!!!!

Lori, i saw how the Knox helped my old golden Buck.  he had arthritis in his lower spine an his hips.  his spine had actually "humped" up some and go a curve to it.  He had trouble getting up and down.  But after 2  1/2 months on the Knox, we could really see a difference.  My husband, was so impressed with the improve,ment in Buck that HE started taking the pill orm for his back.

 We have used milk thistle around here for a good while.  I gave the dogs (still give honey) 175 mg. capsul each day under ordinary circumstances, but up it when they re on antibiotics.  Hubby and i each take 1000 mg. capsul each day.

I am so happy no cancer wa found.  Willo has enough on her plate without having cancer as well.  But as Callie said, you got a head stat on her problems and that is good for her.  Hugs to you and a kiss on the nose for Willow.