Culling, does it mean death for innocent pups?

snownose

AgileGSD

and are not involved in the dog world

Not involved in the dog world?....lol......funny, I am involved alright, I am part of the clean up crew that cleans up messes that people have created......

I don't think Ado meant it like that.

snownose

I personally would not euth. a puppy with a hearing issue, but that's just me.....

I might.

In an ideal world culling wouldn't happen except for the a few serious, untreatable health issues.  But we don't live in an ideal world.  snow, I'd agree with you if there were more homes like yours to take in "the unwanted" dogs.  But I don't think there are enough of those homes... 

DPU

amstaffy

 We can't save and home them all no matter how much we want too...it's just impossible

That option is not available to those of us that can save, rehab, train, and place these pups.  I most certainly understand the cull (death) as it relates to certain health and temperment issues across all breeds.  But the OP has shown us evidence that culling (dealth) is taking place for cosmetic reasons and it is condoned and encourage by a breeder club.  A heinous act to me.  Now I don't know anything about breeder clubs other than it is a distinguishing element that separates a "reputable" responsible breeder from other types of breeders. 

Culling by death doesn't have to happen. But I can tell you there are old time breeders who do believe in it and will continue to do it for cosmetic reasons. Many feel that, as I've said previously that they are not worth the energy it takes and time to raise a pup that is not within breed standards when there are better pups. Reputable or responsible depends on your ethics and values

snownose

HoundMusic

I don't even find this issue to be debatable. You cannot rehabilitate all dogs brought into the pound, and not all dogs that end up in one are adoption material.

 

I don't see where anyone has even made that claim.....

Really?

"I don't find this laughable at all since I believe all dogs in the shelters can be placed in time and with the help of a human champion"

DPU

HoundMusic

You cannot rehabilitate all dogs brought into the pound, and not all dogs that end up in one are adoption material.

Those that are culled (death) for cosmetic reasons and maybe even deafness are very much adoptable.  No rhetoric at all and not looking to debate the fix for the shelter dog.  Just wanted to say that innocent, perfectly healthy pups does mean death by those breeders that practice the traditional method, according to you.

     No, pups culled for coat colors are not always adoptable because 99% of the time, that color is associated with health problems. It's the breeder's perogative to cull or find a home that would be willing to work with that pup's special needs. Sometimes, those homes just don't exist, especially if the breed is not a popular one, or a working breed that tends to not make good pets anyway. Opponents of culling continue to drag up the incorrect color concept - well, the overwhelming majority of breeders do not cull just because the color doesn't look pretty or isn't accepted by the parent club. White or brown Schipperkes would be an example of this. The color is not associated with a health issue, not desirable, yet Schipperke breeders do not euth the white ones anymore. They don't need to be, because now they can just spay/neuter the incorrect dogs.

     You know, color had much to do with the success of many working breeds, and still does. Such as white flock guardian dogs. They are white and wooly for a good reason They do not make good pets at all, but serve a much needed purpose. So traditional culling is justified in those instances, and for valid reasons. In fact, almost all the breeders that cull by euthing are working breeders, whose dogs WOULD NOT make good pets! They have too much drive, energy, intelligence for a pet owner. I will maintain that while it's my personal choice to only cull animals with sick or poor temperaments, traditional culling is still needed, warranted, and there is a substantial chance those dogs would never have pet potential.

sillysally

Really?

"I don't find this laughable at all since I believe all dogs in the shelters can be placed in time and with the help of a human champion"

Let me clarify, usually, dogs in shelters that have a chance get to stay a little longer in comparison to super aggressive dogs that show that from minute one......most of the other decent dogs just run out of time......verstehen?

HoundMusic

No, pups culled for coat colors are not always adoptable because 99% of the time, that color is associated with health problems. It's the breeder's perogative to cull or find a home that would be willing to work with that pup's special needs. Sometimes, those homes just don't exist, especially if the breed is not a popular one, or a working breed that tends to not make good pets anyway.

Would this apply to the original post of the Ridgebacks with no ridge?

sillysally

snownose

HoundMusic

I don't even find this issue to be debatable. You cannot rehabilitate all dogs brought into the pound, and not all dogs that end up in one are adoption material.

 

I don't see where anyone has even made that claim.....

 

Really?

"I don't find this laughable at all since I believe all dogs in the shelters can be placed in time and with the help of a human champion"

OK!  all adoptable dogs.  It looks to me that within the ranks of "reputable" responsible breeders there is some that feel or know there is unethical practices going on.....but still they are considered as "reputable" responsible? The individual breeders define the breeder group, not the other way around.  Hasn't that been the argument for labeling the Pet Quality Dog Breeder as irresponsible.

snownose

HoundMusic

No, pups culled for coat colors are not always adoptable because 99% of the time, that color is associated with health problems. It's the breeder's perogative to cull or find a home that would be willing to work with that pup's special needs. Sometimes, those homes just don't exist, especially if the breed is not a popular one, or a working breed that tends to not make good pets anyway.

 

Would this apply to the original post of the Ridgebacks with no ridge?

snownose

sillysally

Really?

"I don't find this laughable at all since I believe all dogs in the shelters can be placed in time and with the help of a human champion"

Let me clarify, usually, dogs in shelters that have a chance get to stay a little longer in comparison to super aggressive dogs that show that from minute one......most of the other decent dogs just run out of time......verstehen?

Really?? Hmmm what about the dogs who by breed come in one door and go out in a bag?? No matter if they are pups..they too are decent dogs but running out of time isn't the reason they are PTS

amstaffy

Really?? Hmmm what about the dogs who by breed come in one door and go out in a bag?? No matter if they are pups..they too are decent dogs but running out of time isn't the reason they are PTS

That could be possible, but what I have witnessed is (in the shelter closest to me), that pitbull and pitbull mix pups get to stay quiet some time......you can check that out by googling Forsyth County, North Carolina Animal Shelter, the adoption page......check in frequently, not just one time.....

snownose

That could be possible, but what I have witnessed is (in the shelter closest to me), that pitbull and pitbull mix pups get to stay quiet some time....

 Not in this county - APBTs and mixes rarely see the outside of our county pound once they go in. I have seen one of the local rescues that pulls dogs from there has one from time to time that they are calling an Amstaff or Boxer mix. Most are killed without ever going up for adoption and without the public ever seeing them. I believe only one shelter in my area, a large privately run one will adopt out APBTs. The other private orgs won't take them at all. Actually at our county pound even the dogs up for adoption are not killed because no one wants them, they are killed because that is the job of the county pound - disposing of unwanted pets not pet adoption.

"at our county pound even the dogs up for adoption are not killed because no one wants them, they are killed because that is the job of the county pound - disposing of unwanted pets not pet adoption. "

 Nice.

Culling to me means killing, altering means removing from the breeding population...but thats just what my experiences are over time.

And for those that think people dont kill cull anymore - I had a person come up to me and tell me that Ruby should have been drowned.  By the way - that's cosmetic...she is a coated white swiss shepherd dog - the person thought she was a coated white german shepherd.

~Cate

calliecritturs

Breeds that have the 'merle' coat (shelties, etc.) or black/white marked dogs like harlequin danes, dalmatians, etc. often wind up with at least one 'white' pup out of 5 when breeding merles to merles to obtain that prized coat.  Routinely, the white/deaf pups have been "culled".  For many years the AKC dalmatian club has recommended never placing the white pup because of "potential aggression" (because a deaf dog can startle easily, particularly if untrained).

Harlequin danes and Dalmatians have different color genetics (harlequin is tied in with merling, Dalmatian spotting is not).  ALL Dalmatian puppies, with the exception of patches (a disqualifying fault), are born white.  The spotting comes in as the pup ages.  I have never seen a pure white Dalmatian - dogs with very light lemon spotting, yes.  Dogs with very few spots, yes.  But no pure white dogs.  The ethical guidelines regarding euthanization pertains to bilaterally deaf puppies (as determined by BAER testing).

-Lindsay 

     I've been around ethical breeders most of my life and sometimes culling (by death) is the most rsponsible, and difficult thing a breeder ever has to do. In my experience it is never undertaken lightly, and many tears are shed.

     Deaf puppies are particularly horrible as you don't know until they're 6 to 8 weeks old. Yes, they can be trained with hand signals, and yes they can make delightful pets, but a breeder knows that deaf puppy will need a special, dedicated owner, and those owners are not your average pet owner.

     Culling because of color isn't as common anymore because of early neuter options, but it was once done to preserve breed type. I knew a boxer breeder in the 70s who PTS any white pups in her litters. I was horrified! She told me that the first time she had a white pup, she sold it as a pet that the owner was supposed to spay. Instead that puppy was used to breed intentional litters of white boxers, much to the breeder's dismay.

     In todays "rare, designer breeds" atmosphere, placing puppies with color or marking faults is made more difficult by the advent of the new registries. A breeder can withhold papers, and insist on spay/neuter, but the CKC (or others) will register that dog if you pay the fee. Way to many "pet" buyers get the urge to breed, so often an ethical, caring breeder has to make hard decisions.