Chief is sick...Update, he has parvo. (Ratsicles)

    • Gold Top Dog

    My friend who has used the IG treatment so successfully (Maddie was a ROTTIE who survived parvo -- and I think most know how utterly lethal parvo usually is to rottweillers -- they usually just plain can't survive it for some reason) -- she's actually a doctor herself, and she told me one of the reasons why parvo vax can fail so often is because since parvo is a 'virus' it mutates constantly, so the vax may just not cover the particular mutated strain you're dealing with.  Scarey stuff.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Jennie, my hat goes off to you.  What a wonderful thing to offer.  

    For some reason the idea of little Emma tranfusing blood into a giant like Chief just tickles me...pictures would definitely be in order. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Dunno if the Tamiflu thing has been brought up but here's a link...

    http://www.drbroadhurst.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2

    Haven't looked heavily into but just wanted to place the link here in case it would be of help.

    ETA: Also, the NEOPAR vaccine is reputed to have an extremely high rate of protection so here's a link to that. Most vets do not carry this as it's $$$ for them...but it apparently can be purchased in areas it's legal to vaccinate ones own pets.

    http://www.neotechvaccines.com/

    • Gold Top Dog

    huskymom

    Jennie, my hat goes off to you.  What a wonderful thing to offer.  

     

    Ditto, that is wonderful! 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Jennie thank you SO MUCH. It is so amazing of you to offer Emma as a donor, and I don't know how to thank you. I got the numbers Callie sent me of people to talk to about the IG treatment and I left messages, so I'm waiting on somone to call me back.

    Talked to my vet about an hour ago, and Cheif may get to come home tomorrow! They said he's looking REALLY good, so they're going to take him off of the IV fluids and anti nausea drugs and see if he can hold down some food. If he can eat and drink on his own without vomiting or having any diarrea, he can probably come home tomorrow. I'm so glad...because we've lost a couple of hens just in the few days he's been gone, and the goats are having to stay penned up since I can't risk letting them roam without Chief to supervise. I know the goats will be glad to have him back too, they're getting pretty bored in their crappy little pen. Stick out tongue

    But anyway...if Chief is well enough that he'll probably be home tomorrow, is it even necessary to do the IG treatment on him? I'm guessing not, but we can still do Axl and Punch pre-emptively, if the vets think that's a good idea. I haven't directly spoken with anyone yet so we'll have to see what they think.

    Callie, if you see this, I'll respond to your PMs a bit later and THANK YOU for sending me all of that info- I'm going to head to the vet's and visit Chief now and then pick up some of the stuff you told me to get for him and the other dogs. I'll get back to your PMs when I get home.

    Keep your fingers crossed everybody that Chief continues to improve over the course of the day...I want him home tomorrow!!

     

     

    Edit:

    [quote]Dunno if the Tamiflu thing has been brought up but here's a link...

    http://www.drbroadhurst.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2

    Haven't looked heavily into but just wanted to place the link here in case it would be of help.

    ETA: Also, the NEOPAR vaccine is reputed to have an extremely high rate of protection so here's a link to that. Most vets do not carry this as it's $$$ for them...but it apparently can be purchased in areas it's legal to vaccinate ones own pets.

    http://www.neotechvaccines.com/ [/quote]

    Yeah I saw the Tamiflu thing. It's a good option if we can't get the IG treatment done, but I'm going to see if we can get the IG treatment done first. As for the NEOPAR vaccine, yeah we probably need to be sure to use that in the future. If my vet's can't get it, I'll order it and do it myself.

    • Gold Top Dog

    The problem is he can "come home" but Brit he is going to be UNBELIEVABLY weak for a long while, and shedding parvo every single day in his fecal matter.  The IG treatment will get him better FAST.  Way way faster because it infuses blood WITH antibodies rather than waiting for him to get well AND for his body to develop antibodies (yeah, I think there IS quite a risk of him relapsing -- ASK THE VET) -- I don't know if he can go back outside where he was until he's better.  Remember the vets aren't experienced in the concept of a LGD ... ASK.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I agree. With everything I've read, parvo cases can relapse easily. I wouldn't expect him to come home tomorrow and be able to guard his stock. He's going to need some rest.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Jewlieee
    With everything I've read, parvo cases can relapse easily.

    Parvaid claims to reduce the chances of a relapse.

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    huskymom

    janet_rose

    Ratsicles
    They're an hour and a half away from us and with my gas guzzler 20 year old Jeep with a leak in the fuel line, the gas price would be absolutely hellish to get there and back, ...

    I suppose that the leak is somewhere that you can't get to with some kind of tape.  No danger of fire, I hope!!

    Jeep, behave yourself!!

    [I talk to my car, so I guess it won't hurt to talk to yours, too.  Smile  It was quite interesting once trying to explain to a four-year-old why I talked to my car.]

     

    That's ok, my mom talks to the traffic lights... Drives me nuts...Hold on Babe, comin through... 

     

    Heck, I used to talk to my big truck  -  whooooaa big truck!  Kept me from squooshing quite a few four wheelers. Devil   I think that devil is pretty wimpy, too.  And, where the heck is the BADH smilie???

     

    I just want to say that I think you are awesome, too, Jennie!!!!!!!  

     

    Glad Chief is a bit better, and with all these good idog vibes and offers of help, I think he's getting the best help he can possibly get on the spiritual level anyway.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     We had a terrible day, but... I'm off for the next four days, Brittany. If you need Emma, let me know. As long as we're allowed to leave, we'll come (guess who has a bite record, now????).

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    Talked to my vet about an hour ago, and Cheif may get to come home tomorrow! They said he's looking REALLY good, so they're going to take him off of the IV fluids and anti nausea drugs and see if he can hold down some food. If he can eat and drink on his own without vomiting or having any diarrea, he can probably come home tomorrow.

        That's great news; I'm so glad he's getting better.
     

    • Gold Top Dog

     So how is he feeling today Britt?  Is he coming home?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Brittany, here are some places where you can get single doses of Neopar.  Note that the 10-dose product is one vial containing 10 doses.  I don't know how high the risk is of contaminating the vial with so many uses.

    http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/1391-Neopar.aspx
    http://www.agri-med.com/site/255063/product/NEOPAR-1
    http://www.atozvetsupply.com/NEOPAR-p/10-ntbase.htm

    If you can identify the manufacturer of the parvo vaccines that Chief got, I would be tempted to give them a call.  Vaccines don't have a guarantee, but you may be able to help keep this from happening to other dogs.

    Suggested conversation:

    I realize that you can't guarantee the effectiveness of your parvo vaccine.  However, I have a dog, Chief, that was fully vaccinated with your product and still came down with parvo.  Chief is a livestock guardian dog and has been around coyotes, so this may be a coyote strain of parvo.

    Would you be interested in stool or blood samples in the interest of possibly improving your product?  If so, would you be willing to cover the costs of packaging and shipping?

    The stool sample would probably need to be collected soon and before the use of something like Parvaid, so I may be too late with this suggestion.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sorry I haven't updated, I am having the week from hell (a ton of crap going on in addition to sick dogs) and can barely find time to eat much less get on the computer...thanks to everyone who is continuing to offer support and helpful info.

    Chief came home yesterday morning and he's doing about as well as can be expected. Very week, sleeping a ton, but he was glad to see us, even more glad to see his goats, and this morning I even had to quiet him down a bit because he was wanting to play. He's eating and drinking, not with as much gusto as he normally does, but his appetite is good enough. He's just getting boiled chicken and rice for the next 3 days, on the 4th day I'll start reintroducing kibble. He's not going to get anything raw for a good long while, until his immune system has a chance to recover.

    I know he can't go back to work right away, and he isn't. He's spending the days in a small pen with the goats and the nights in my heated hay loft. He's NOT going to be inside simply because it would be a huge stressor for him. He spent a few days inside as a 5 week old puppy and that's it. His pack is his goats- Dh and I are just friendly outsiders that bring him food and play with him sometimes. We're not his main family. He hates coming inside to the point where if he has to come in, we have to carry him, and he scrambles and fights us the whole way. He then proceeds to cry and howl and try to get back out...because he's seperated from his pack. Seeing my other dogs is another huge stressor, because he honestly doesn't identify as a dog- all canines are potential threats to his goats and they just freak him out. IMO, keeping him inside would be putting him more at risk of a relapse than keeping him out. He's in a small pen, so can't run around much, and there are really no predators to guard against during the day. He's mostly just out there sleeping and resting while the goats graze a little. At night, when the predators come out, he's locked in the hay loft were it's nice and warm, but where he can't spend the night patroling. And he can still see and smell his goats through the windows so he'll be much less stressed than he would be in the house.

     

    We had a terrible day, but... I'm off for the next four days, Brittany. If you need Emma, let me know. As long as we're allowed to leave, we'll come (guess who has a bite record, now????).

    Gosh, I'm sorry, that really sucks about Emma. And, I want to thank you again for your offer...that really means alot to me. Fortunately you and Emma are off the hook- we're going directly to Auburn and they have their own bank of dogs to draw from. I called and explained to them the situation yesterday and we have an appointment on Tuesday. I didn't speak with a vet and I'm not sure if they're actually planning on doing the IG thing on Tuesday, but I'll at least get to see a competant vet and we can figure out where to go from here.

    I am absolutely horrified at the vet that treated Chief. We got there yesterday morning to pick him up, and I figured I'd get a chance to talk to the vet and ask some questions- I wanted to know what to feed him, how long he needs to rest before he can go back to work, what his chances of relapse were, and a few other questions- instead, we sat in the waiting room for 90 MINUTES while we waited for them just to go get Chief out of the kennel and hand him to us. Finally we get Chief, they hand us a bill, and tell us we're good to go. "Um....I haven't even seen the vet yet. I need to ask him some questions. Isn't there at least some after care information he needs to give us?" The tech at the desk says "Nope, just make sure he takes it easy for a few days. Oops, I forgot to print out his rabies tag, hang on!"

    Um...what? Rabies tag?? So I look at the actual bill for the first time and see the following:

     Yes. The vet vaccinated Chief. After he's already been vaccinated. As he's recovering from a potentially deadly illness and his immune system is crap. So, livid, I mention this to the tech. She says "It's our policy to vaccinate all dogs who's owners do not produce proof of vaccination." Okay, well, they didn't TELL me this. NO ONE told me this. They just asked if he was vaccinated, I said "Yeah," they gave me a dirty look like they didn't believe me and no mention of it was ever made again. If they had needed proof of vaccination, I could have driven home and been back in under an hour with whatever proof they needed. They didn't ask me, they didn't tell me that they were doing it or that they had even done it. They just did it.

    They also gave him Heartguard after I had already dosed him at home the week before (I don't use Heartguard, I use cattle Ivomec from the feed store.) They didn't even ask, at any point, if he was already on prevention.

    I demanded to see the vet, and they said "I'm sorry, he's with a patient. If you want to speak with him you'll have to make another appointment." Indifferent

    I declined and left. I'll just wait until Tuesday when we go to Auburn, tell that vet what went on, and figure out what to do from there. I have Chief on a bunch of things Callie suggested to boost his immune system so here's hoping he doesn't relapse. That's all I know to do for now.

    Oh, and this vet also charged me almost $400 over what he initially quoted me at, for a hospital stay half as long as what they initially estimated. Their response to that was "That was just an estimate, we can't gaurantee that it will be correct." Fine, but $400 more? For a SHORTER stay than they thought he'd have? For what I paid this idiot vet, I could have just taken him to Auburn in the first place and got him much, much better care. I swear, I have very, very rarely had experiences with the vets in town that weren't just horrible. Angry

     

    Sigh. So yeah, Auburn on Tuesday. Hopefully we'll be able to get Punch, Chief, and Axl the IG treatment. We'll see.

    Brittany, here are some places where you can get single doses of Neopar.  Note that the 10-dose product is one vial containing 10 doses.  I don't know how high the risk is of contaminating the vial with so many uses.

    http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/1391-Neopar.aspx
    http://www.agri-med.com/site/255063/product/NEOPAR-1
    http://www.atozvetsupply.com/NEOPAR-p/10-ntbase.htm

    If you can identify the manufacturer of the parvo vaccines that Chief got, I would be tempted to give them a call.  Vaccines don't have a guarantee, but you may be able to help keep this from happening to other dogs.

    Thanks Janet, we're definitely going to be using Neopar from now on. I don't see on any of Chief's paperwork the name of the manufacturer of the vaccines he got, and the clinic that initially vaccinated him is closed on weekends. I'll call tomorrow and let them know what happened and ask what they use, and if possible I'll contact the manufacturer and let them know too.

    I took a few pictures of Chief this morning. Someone at the clinic taught him to jump on people, be mouthy, and bark for attention, undoing months of training in all of 2.5 days. Angry Until yesterday, I don't think he's jumped on me in a couple of months, and I don't think he's mouthed since he was tiny. Sigh. That clinic sucks.

    You can see where his leg was shaved for the IV's:

    Boy Goat got jealous of the attention Chief was getting and decided to butt in:

    The pen he's staying in while he recovers:

    He's eating pretty well, so that's a good sign at least:

     

    Thats about it for now, I guess. I'll try to update again Tuesday after we go to Auburn and talk to a vet who knows what the hell they're doing.

     

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    He's looking good!! Glad he's back home!!!!

    Did you pay by credit card? Visa, it looks like? If I were you, I would call the credit card company ASAP, tell them to hold charges from that vet clinic because of a billing dispute, and rip those guys a new one. At least over here, my vet has NO RIGHT to authorize any kind of treatment without my permission. I'm sure the vets just decided that since your dog had parvo, you had probably never vaccinated him, and if they asked then you'd say no and if they waited they'd never see him again and then he'd never get any of his shots and would get sick again. So I'm sure they were trying to do what's best for Chief (considering he has this terrible owner who doesn't even bother to give him his shots and keeps him outside all day), HOWEVER... they can't do an unnecessary procedure, without first consulting you, and then charge you for it. Especially when the procedures were potentially harmful. My vet (who is 100% "traditional" in every sense) is strongly against vaccinating dogs when they're under any kind of stress, particularly immune stress. It's not necessarily a "holistic vet" idea!!! I'm sure you didn't want to fight right that moment since you just wanted Chief home, but I think this is worth kicking up a fuss about so they don't pull it on someone else. If you want I can possibly help you look up "patients' rights" sort of info if you tell me what county you and the vet are in.