Chief is sick...Update, he has parvo. (Ratsicles)

    • Gold Top Dog

    I kinda think so too. What kind of pig was it? I saw the pics and it looked like a wild pig? Not one of those pink ones lol.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Not sure what breed of pig it was(I think the guy raises...Hampshires? I don't know pig breeds), but it was definitely a domestic pig. We got him from someone we know that raises pigs and had a few extras. As far as we know his herd is healthy, but we don't know anything about pigs.

    Maybe it was just more spoiled than I thought. Then again, I've seen Chief carry around things that have been dead so long they're unrecognizeable. I take them away when I see it, but I'm sure he sneaks some past me. I would think that if he was going to get sick from something like that he would have by now. I guess not, though.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sending out my strongest get well vibes.  So sorry you're going through this Brittany.  Onyx had a bad day not too long ago.  I think she found some old deer meat when we went to the off leash area I take them too.  She was dreadful for a day and a half.  She fairly dragged herself around.  She looked shaky and terribly sad.  She even pooped in her crate that night, which she NEVER does.  She wouldn't eat, and she drank tons of water.  I called my vet and he told me to bring her in the next day(it was pretty late) if she wasn't feeling any better.  But by the time I got her up she was her normal bouncy self. 

    I hope Chief is on the mend.  Let us know how our favorite LGD is doing when you get home from the vet. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    I just saw this post and I'm so sorry to hear that Chief is sick. :( How is he doing today?

    I really do think that dogs are way more susceptible to parasites and bacteria from raw meat than people think. I guess certain types of meat are more of a problem and maybe the freshness, plus whether the meat has been frozen to kill some parasites and bacteria help. But especially with getting into all different kinds of animal poop.... I would personally feed him something other than raw meat and also add a probiotic to his diet.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Both of my dogs just went through what you are describing in Chief. Not interested in food. Throwing up, runny poo, drinking water, lethargy, etc. but they both pulled through after a few days. I did get them on antibiotics though just in case. So hopefully it's nothing more than some phantom doggy virus and he will be back to normal in less than a week.

     

    P.S. that vet really should know a thing or two about working dogs. That just blows my mind. I wouldn't trust my dogs with someone like that. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Hope Chief is doing better and I bet it was the pig. Cara was once sick just as you describe and it was because she ate something putrid. I know it's tempting to get him to eat something, but it would just tax his digestion and draw out the sickness. Fasting is the best thing for him. Poor guy...

    • Gold Top Dog

    Chief has Parvo.

    And I am livid that the vet we saw yesterday didn't test him for it. We brought him inside last night. Before that he had never been around our other dogs. He freaking pooped, in the house, where our other dogs are, last night. If that stupid vet had tested for parvo we would have caught it and he would never have come in contact with my other dogs.

    He's in the hospital right now and they've got him on IVs. They said he has a decent chance, but who knows.

     Can someone please tell me how my dog got parvo when he's been vaccinated? How is that physically possible?? Chief will be 6 months old next week. He completed his series of puppy shots. He should be fine. How the hell did he get parvo when he never, ever leaves our property?? When no strange dogs ever come onto our property? I know it can live in the soil for a long time, but wouldn't he have gotten it long before now if that was the case??

    My other dogs do not go into areas that Chief goes in. All of them are vaccinated, except Punchy, who has one more set of puppy shots to go. They told us that Punch should be fine, but I don't believe them. He may not have immunity yet. We bleached the spot where Chief pooped, but still. Chief was vaccinated, and he still got parvo.

    What the heck do I do?? Chief has run of most of our property. His poop could potentially cover most of our property. I don't think it's possible for us to bleach 7 acres of land. Our other dogs are mainly confined to the yard, so they should have no contact with soil Chief was on, but still.

    We're going to fill a basin with bleach and step in it every time we go out where Chief was staying before we come back into the yard where our other dogs stay.

    I don't want Chief to die, and I don't want my other dogs to get parvo. Sorry if this isn't very coherent, I'm freaking out and i dont really know what to do. I'm about to start researching parvo, I appreciate any advice anyone can give me.

    Thanks everyone for the support so far, and please send Chief your healing vibes. He's going to have a long hospital stay ahead of him and we dont even know if hes going to make it. I am terrified.

    I honestly have no idea what we will do if Chief doesn't make it. We could potentially lose all of our animals to coyotes...we lost a chicken last night just from him being in the house for one night. He is our only real protection from predators...determined coyotes can get into anything.

    We need Chief. I don't know what we'll do without him. I just want him to come home.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Vaccines are not fail proof. Emma had parvo, after her first two vaccines. She was young, though. Parvo is highly contagious, and rampant in our area. It could have come from the kids trying to pet your goats. It could have come in on your shoes, from the shelter or vet's office. It could have come on the pig, if a neighbor's dog got in with the pigs, somehow. It could have been in the soil, and he was weakened for some reason (this is the age where demodex hits, so maybe there's something about this point in development that weakens dogs....?).

     

    I hope that Chief is ok, and that your others don't become ill.  That vet is an idiot.... Yuck.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh my, I am so sorry to hear that!!! I literally gasped when I read your last post.

    In my rescue experience, we did get several young puppies with parvo and most of them survived. Parvo treatment has improved a lot in recent years, and that is good news for Chief.

    Not sure about the management aspects for your property, but the experience folks should be along shortly with advice.

    Sending all the healthy vibes we have from our house to yours and a big hug for you.

     
     

    • Gold Top Dog
    I have no idea about parvo, I just wanted to add my support and good vibes for Chiefy.
    • Gold Top Dog

    Brittany - I'm so sorry to hear the news and I can only imagine how frightened you must be. I don't know a thing about Parvo but I'm sure others will have some suggestions and I know you're probably reading everything you can find right now. Didn't the vet have any suggestions regarding your other animals?  Geesh, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this and I hope that Chief recovers from it. I'll keep you all in my thoughts and prayers.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh no, not good news. Sad The times I've heard about Parvo it was really young puppies, too young to have had all their shots. I think because he's 6 months old he's got a very good chance of pulling through. Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh, crap! Honey, I'm so sorry! Chief will probably be fine. So that's good. Sending healthy thoughts for all your kids... and calming thoughts for you...

    http://www.workingdogs.com/parvofaq.htm 

    Dogs and puppies can contract parvo even if they never leave their yards. Parvo virus, despite what you might hear, is NOT an airborne virus. It is excreted in the *** of infected dogs, and if someone -- human, dog, bird, etc. -- steps in (or otherwise comes in contact with) the excrement, the possibility for contamination is great. Some people speculate that birds invading a dog's food dish can deposit the parvovirus there.
    ...
    Dr. Cathy Priddle has warned that sulfa drugs have been known to cause dehydration in dogs, suggesting that animals infected with parvovirus should not be given sulfa drugs.
     ...
    While no extremely accurate statistics are available, a good guess is probably that 80% of puppies treated for parvovirus will live.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Didn't the vet have any suggestions regarding your other animals? 

    Sigh, this vet wasn't that great either. Around here, you will NOT get a decent vet if it's an emergency. The only vets that have enough openings that they can fit you in on short notice are vets that no one wants to go to. My main vet, that I really like, I'm pretty much only able to see for routine or non-urgent stuff. He's constantly booked full and you have to make an appointment a couple of weeks in advance to see him. So in emergency situations, I'm pretty much left with whatever crummy clinic can fit me in. Sad

    The guy who saw us today is the same vet who wanted to euthanize Axl when he came down with heartworm...because "the treatment is long and expensive and probably not worth it." When we insisted he referred us to another vet. He decided it wasn't worth his time and wouldn't even try to treat him. I've seen him a few times, and he's a competant vet- but he's older, probably close to retiring, and frankly he's kind of lazy. From what I've seen, he just doesn't want to bother with anything that's not routine. He's happy to just sit around and do spays and neuters all day. I'm surprised he bothered to treat Chief and didn't just refer us to someone else.

    So, we actually only spent about 15 minutes in his office, and most of that was spent waiting for him to run the parvo test. He only spoke with us for a second and the entire conversation took place with him standing half in/half out of the exam room. He didn't say anything, but that attitude of everyone there seemed like they didn't believe that we had vaccinated him. As we were leaving, one of the techs shook her head and said "This is why it's important to make sure you get them their shots." Sad

    The vet came in, took a fecal sample, ran the test, came back, and told us it was parvo and that he'd need to stay. He gave us a quick price estimate and then shoved us out the door. As soon as he said "parvo" I started crying, and we actually had to go back in and just ask the tech at the desk questions that we didn't get a chance to ask the vet. They said that as long as our other animals are vaccinated, they should be fine. We told them that we had a 4 month old puppy who still had a few sets of shots to go, and the tech just kind of shrugged and said "Just make sure you wash after you handle Chief and he should be fine." I was a mess at the time and didn't really push it, but that just doesn't seem right to me...he isn't through with his vaccines. Therefore, he might have immunity and he might not. I guess all we can do is watch him and hope...but I am just terrified that Punch is going to get this. I'm less worried about Chief- from what I've read he'll probably pull through. But Punchy is younger, highly suceptible, and I just don't know if I can afford to have two dogs hospitalized at the same time. If Punchy gets this, I honestly don't know if we'll be able to treat him on top of Chief. We're looking at a potentially huge bill as it is, depending on how long Chief has to stay in.

    So I don't know...we're trying to bleach and sterilize everything but I doubt theres a point because Punchy has already been exposed to this. If he's going to get it, he's going to get it.

    Sigh. We're going to visit Chief in the morning. He's never been away from home before and is probably terrified. I'm going to rub a towel all over Boy Goat (his very best friend) so that it smells like him and bring it to him tomorrow to sleep with. Hopefully that will boost his moralle some. From what I've read, as long as he stays in the hospital and on fluids, he should make it.

    Thanks again everyone, for all of the good thoughts.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Chief should have a good shot Brittany -- it is mostly young dogs who die from parvo and mostly from the Corona virus that lives IN parvo.

    How?  Depends on how old he was when he was vaccinated.  I know it's been "disputed" but if a pup still has Mom's 'immunity' effective in his system when he gets vax'd the shot won't take.  And if he's gotten vax'd with killed vaccines they aren't going to give the immunity they should. 

    so if a pup gets a shot at 6, 8, and 11 weeks -- it's possible -- actually probable, that the first two are ineffective, and maybe all 3.  If Mom was healthy and he got lasting immunity from her, and the shots came too soon, that's how it happens.

    Add to that, what someone said above -- at 5 months he's starting to sexually mature.  That DOES weaken their immunity (yes, Jennie exactly -- all the same things that 'trigger' demodex can trigger any other illness simply because they are drains on the immune system).

    So particularly if he was snacking on a pig that wasn't healthy and the immune system was drained by battling THAT bacteria, then the harder punch from the parvo could surely prevail. 

    No vaccine is ever 100%.  It's just plain not.  It is simply trying to get the body to build anti-bodies to help immunity.  But if is last shot was the only thing he got after mom's immunity laxed, then it didn't get boostered (which is supposedly how it happens).

    Now -- he should be immune to the virus that caused his own illness -- but only a vet can tell you that one. 

    HOW can it have gotten on your property?  Easy -- you've had kids on your property that didn't belong there, and other people have been there.  All it takes is literally a couple of molecules of parvo virus to spread it -- way too tiny to 'see' -- a tiny bit in dirt on someone's shoe who walked to their own car on their own driveway because the neighbor's dog was sick and the paperboy tracked it from that house to their house.  They got in their car, walked on your property and it was there.  You could have picked it up on your own shoes just from walking into the grocery store and back to your car.  It can be anywhere -- this is why the big huge mega deal about vaccinating got started -- it's just so darned easy to spread.

    A basin of chlorox isn't really enough.  You have to create a clean room atmosphere -- BEFORE you leave your car change your shoes. Walk from the car to the house and CHANGE SHOES BEFORE you enter.  (so essentially you dedicate a pair of trash shoes to go between your car and your house)

    After a week the shoes that have gone between the car and house need to be destroyed and do the same with some other pair.

    Frankly you should roll up your pantlegs before you get out of the car.  And one of the first things you need to clean is the carpet in the car -- and chlorox it if at all possible.  Every floor surface in the house (including your stairs if you have any -- going upstairs or downstairs into a cellar) needs to be chloroxed if possible.  Because you've gone a LOT of places in the past 9 days and it takes at least 9 days for it to incubate.

    I doubt bleaching just that spot of the carpet will work.  Now I've done this before and it's not pleasant -- but if you go to a store that rents carpet shampooers -- you can actually put chlorox in with the soap.  If you have an old yucky carpet it will clean it -- I've actually bleached my nasty orange carpet in my dining room several times.  I expected it to fall apart after the first time but it's not only ugly it's durable. 

    It's not something you want to do with a carpet you care about.  But you have to get DEEP because that virus will have gone all the way to the padding. 

    But don't kid yourself that it's only that one spot -- he's walked in his poop outside -- he's tracked it all over so everywhere he walked in your house ... and then when you stepped where HE stepped you tracked it further.  Does that make sense?  You don't have to see or smell poop for this to spread -- literally it's microscopic particles that will travel.

    If the new pup is gonna get it, he will get it.  It's not impossible to live thru parvo, Brit -- truly it's not.  I don't mean to sound hard-hearted at all.  But a lot of folks on here have brought pups thru parvo.  it's hard -- you have to keep them hydrated, you have to stay up with them round the clock.  But it can be done.

    You will likely need to replace some sod -- particularly where the pup is going to need to potty. 

    You can't vax the pup now -- a vaccine takes at least 3 weeks to really form immunity.  And a vax with a modified live could be disasterous. 

    Now Chief will shed parvo in his stool for a while -- until his body defeats the virus and fully forms anti-bodies.  this isn't like something bacterial that can be killed by antibiotics.  Virus doesn't work that way.

    If you want to pm me I can tell you some herbals you can give the pup to boost his immune system and give him a better chance.

    The other thing you need to ask the vet is will your livestock get parvo?  I don't know -- I have NOT a clue if it's at all zoonotic.  But you need to ask it. 

    And -- frankly, if you have coyotes, then that's another possible way he got parvo.  Because all they'd need to do is track it from one place to another and coyotes probably can get parvo because they are essentially canids of a sort.