Why cant people respect my decision to keep my dog intact?

First off, Digger is Adorable !! What a face, OMG!!! The eyes just totally touch your heart.   Now all of that mentioned please take what I will offer with an open mind. I do not insist you alter your boy.  

If he was from my line there would have been a very specific contract. While I prefer you show your pup to thier championship, and from the snaps I would think Digger could finish, I do not make that the end all be all of life as we know it.  It is reassuring to have judges, many and all independant agree you have a boy worthy of being Breeding stock.  As a breeder of a quarter of a century I can access  and evaluate a dog and a pedigree and make these choices for myself.   Breeding ISN'T for sissys.   It takes dedication and being able to make tough choices.

I REQUIRE by coontract prior to a dog being bred, male or female they have specific tests. In our Breed that begins with OFAs on hip, elbow and patella. Then Cardiac and Thyroid again on a certified level. After that it's Baer ( ears) and Cerf ( eyes)  and if your want a dog to be exceptionally proud of then you go for both the Chic and the TT .  My dogs are now TT, temperament tested prior to planing a breeding. If you can't live with a dog it really isn't any good to any one.

You didn't mention nor did your profile if you had another Berner.... If not where do you expect to find QUALITY stock to breed him to ?  People will flock to you if you press the right buttons... how do YOU know if they are on the up and up or if Digger's babies are going to be part of a puppy mill? Would you want your Grand pups to be sold for and to just anyone???? I would not think so.   Most of us tend to be very , very picky about the lives we would want for our "grand"puppies.. You realize people will crawl out from under rocks to breed to a dog as handsome as your boy with ZERO concern about the pup's lives after the check clears.

Can you be sure IF you do the necessary breed testing the owner's of the girl will do the same? Or will you tie his name forever with a litter that breaks hearts in the worst possible way?  And will they be sold without conditions so regardless of health and standard they will be bred, possibly in a crap filled pen with little shelter and never fresh water or decent food?

You have already stated you may wish to breed in the future, have you shown him to assure him a list of great possiblities to mate with ? Also Champions also tested? Even if you hate showing a decent handler could finsh such a gorgeous boy , allowing you , again , a better pick in the mating arena and a higher price for the pups.  Joe Schmoe with "purebred" pups from unshown parents are the bottom of the available pups and money . That is simply reality.   You may have the salvation of your breed snoring on your carpet BUT if you don't show and test Who Cares ?

Okay , say the concept of breeding is really more of an afterthought.... sort of a justification to keep thoes family jewels where you can see them and he can "appreciate" them...?     Have you looked at any of the studies about prostate cancer etc and intact dogs???  I think you adore this monkey boy, with his eyes and gorgeous coloring ...how would YOU feel if the big old C could have been avoided with a simple snip, snip ???  Did you know there IS a doggie STD  ??? Oh yes and it can be not just a problem with future litters but Lethal!  My breeding pairs are tested for it even though I KNOW where they have been !

And we haven't touched on accidental litters, Digger looks very smart, are you telling me should a girl sending the right signals he would placidly remain in the yard at all times?  Never straying, digging or marking??? That kind of dog  do you have, is he more attracted to boy dogs?? My almost 9 month old about dismantled a gorilla crate to get to the girls inside. And he was sneaky about too !!!  We paid Pupternity for our pet RR knocking up a recently imported  GSD from England.   ooops we had a HUGE fence,  but  where there is a will there is a way. We paid BIG TIME for that little rondevous... 9 pups with big white stars on thier chests. My boy pulled apart the fences and like the gentleman he was returned her to her yard after thier "romp".

If you wish to challenge the above reasons, feeling confident you can control and prevent escape,  having a girl of your own to breed him to or someone you would trust with your bank account that has a girl, are willing to do more than a thousand dollars worth of testing and really think YOU know what  your dog and his pedigree will produce when blending it with another than by all means keep him intact.    and light a candle, say a prayer.... and be happy he is safe in your home...... hopefully any and all f his pups will also have that blessing.

Sincerely  and Best of Luck !!

Bonita of Bwana 

My ex had a hissy and wouldn't let me have my sheltie mix neutered, and there were only so many battles I could 'win' and that wasn't one of them.

Then after 10 years of wedded h#ll I finally got rid of the ex and was too broke to neuter the dog (who was 8 1/2 then).

Just after David and I got married Foxy developed a perianal hernia -- those are about $2000 or more to 'fix' and they have to open them from anus to ankle to do the surgery (and it's risky -- a clipped tendon can make them unable to walk).

My vet 'repaired' it but it was never ever right.  It wouldn't have happened had he been neutered.

also, and maybe you've never thot of this ... we make the dogs live by OUR rules.  (in the name of "being responsible";) -- so we force them to live with the full & inate 'desires' and drives of an intact dog and yet don't allow them to act on that.  Now how fair is it to make them stay intact to have the 'feelings' that nature dictates (particularly in response to a nearby female in heat) and yet never allow release?  They aren't making the logical 'choice' "No, I'd better not have sex with this willing lady dog -- she's cute but we really don't want puppies".

Nope -- that's the human's decision.  Is that fair?

Between my experience with a dog who suffered physically for not being altered and my feelngs on what we put them thru emotionally I will never leave a dog intact again.  The additional risk of cancer and other health problems just frosts the cake as far as I'm concerned. 

But to address your original question -- YOU know *you* are responsible.  But no one else CAN know that.  And when the rest of the pet-helping world spends the vast majority of its time dealng with the results of people breeding dogs who shouldn't -- THAT is why they say something.

so if you make what is actually a "responsible" descision (and to ensure your dog does NOT wantonly breed is more effort) -- you have to understand by default that people say something JUST BECAUSE they don't know you and they wish the rest of the boneheads would get a clue and properly take care of the problem when they obviously don't care enough to keep the dog safe.

If you make the unusual decision then honestly you have to be prepared to deal with people who actually do the thing that is *difficult* and try to educate those who don't have the responsible attitude towards breeding.

It's not easy to gear yourself up for the nastiness but to say to someone "You should neuter your dog so you don't contribute to the pet overpopulation problem" -- so honestly don't be offended.  Be glad they CARE enough to say something.  And perfect your answer "you know, I'm glad you say that to most of your clients because pet overpopulation is a big problem ... but we're trying to leave our options open simply because we made a great effort to get him as potential champion sire breeding material and we're still not sure of the ultimate decision until he gets older and we can do some testing.  But thanks for caring enough to say something."

Well, lets see if I can pull my foot out of my mouth long enough to post.......

I didn't feel scolded, but I did realize that opps, I reacted NOT to what the OP had posted, but rather to another rather snarky comment and that was unfair to the OP.  It's GOOD that you pointed me in the right direction Micks mom!

It does sound as if you are taking the right steps to be certain before you make a decision to breed and that's great.  Way back when we were breeding cockers my pet quality pups went on a strict spay/nueter contract, and the show quality pups had some serious pre-breeding restrictions.

Please understand that my comments were IN GENERAL.  I want to let them stand, not for your sake, because, again, it sounds like you DO want to be responsible about this, but for all the lurkers and future readers who might think its ok to leave Fido intact who aren't going to be as careful as you are.

There is such a horrible overpopulation problem, and so many purebreds end up in shelters and in rescue and so many are euthed for want of a good home that sometimes I get carried away.

Bonita, once again an excellent post.

I'm surprised that it appears the breeder this dog was purchased from didn't have a spay/neuter contract, as good breeders work to keep a breed healthy and usually stay involved with any dog of theirs who may be bred (most I know are co-owners).

Also, if it was decided to breed this dog, what would the reason be? People breed for many different reasons; some good reasons, many not. Some people think dogs have to have at least one litter, which isn't true. Others simply want to become a breeder to sell the puppies; unfortunately, they don't realize that to be a good breeder means you do it out of love for the breed, and not a profit - because there usually isn't much of one, if there is one at all. Puppy mill breeders are the ones making money...and no dog lover would want to be a BYB. And many people who decide to get into breeding don't have any idea of how complicated, time-consuming, expensive, not to mention heartbreaking, it can be.

Biffymnstr, you have to ensure that an 'oops' never happens in the first place...while you may say you'll keep the puppies yourself if you have to, what if these puppies have some genetic problems that costs a lot to take care of, can you really say you'd keep them all, or take back the ones you placed? While it's great that you research things and don't just jump into them, your research should show most breeders do it to help the breed become and stay healthy, and that it takes a huge time and money commitment to breed safely and well. If you ever do decide to breed, I wish you well with it, and if you decide you won't ever breed I hope you do some research about why neutering can be very beneficial to a dog's health.

>>Just after David and I got married Foxy developed a perianal hernia -- those are about $2000 or more to 'fix' and they have to open them from anus to ankle to do the surgery (and it's risky -- a clipped tendon can make them unable to walk).<<

I have no idea what vet you used but $2,000 for a perianal hernia is totally bizarre! They do NOT have to be sliced from anus to ankle! I had an older adult male with an enlarged prostate that developed a perianal hernia and he had the repair and was neutered for a fraction of the above cost.  I also have no idea why they would need to go down the leg at all - what part of the anatomy were they dealing with? The incision would have been at the side of the anus - my dog's incision was above the seat bone at the root of the tail. The surgery was uneventful and he recovered quickly. What exactly were they doing? Makes me think of those cases where people go in for surgery and take a felt tip marker saying "NOT THIS LEG!"

"We are considering breeding our dog in the future.  We still have a lot of research to do as well as make sure the dog is suitable for breeding.  He is only a year old and we are waiting until he gets his hips checked out to make a decision (as well as seeing the results of research)."

where did you get this dog from and how do you plan to go about deciding whether he is "suitable" for breeding? usually that involves a bit more than "research".

most breeders really want to be involved in decisions about whether their "line" is bred or not as well, what sort of contract did your dog's breeder sell him to you with? If none, that's a big red flag that your dog's genetics may not be suitable for being passed on.

Biffymnstr

glenmar

People like me, who work to clean up the messes made by others who don't fully understand what responsible breeding involves, maybe deserve to have an opinion

I want the chance to make this decision on my own.  I also am not promising that I will ever breed Digger.  There is a good chance I wont.  At this point though, I'm not positive.  I'm also not sold on the idea of neutering him for other reasons.  If it is never an issue, why should he get a surgery?  The way I look at it, neutering cannot be undone, but it can always be done if a reason comes up.  I am careful with my dog, especially when he's around other dogs. If there is an oops, I will make sure the puppies have a home even if I have to take on some of them myself.  So I hope that helps you see that not everyone who consider's breeding may be causing harm to dogs.  If no dogs were ever left intact, we would not have man's (and woman's) best friend.   

I couldn't of have said it any better. My girlfriend had a westy who was fixed after 2 yr and she was misarable! Long story short, she passed away and we got a mini-schnauzer. The 2 different Vets that I've consulted with recommended me to fix him, but I opposed the idea and they never pushed me into doing anything I didn't want to do. My dog is now 2 years old and happy as he can be. He is a good dog, never does any mess around the house, hes a good listener , smart and healthy. He wont be getting fixed unless theres a medical need. But thats just my opinion.

 I'm sorry, I haven't read everyone's posts... but I wanted to add my opinion.

My german shepherd has been spayed. A health issue required it when she was about 5 years old, or it wouldn't have been done.

My bassett hound has not been neutered. He's two years old. We probably won't have him neutered unless, again, a medical condition requires it.

I know, why wait until it's necessary? Because. That's what we have chosen to do. Chances are he'll live to be a ripe old age and never have a problem. Fortunately we're alert owners. He gets a bump down there and I inspect it. My husband thinks I'm crazy.. but early detection can be essential.

So. I'll stay alert and he'll stay intact.

I wouldn't have my husband neutered just because a doctor or  neighbor thinks I should......  

I wouldn't have my husband neutered just because a doctor or  neighbor thinks I should......

I think they all should be.

I don't have an unspayed or unneutered pet in my house - nor would I have it any other way.

Even if my dog wasn't one of Glenda's former fosters......she'd be spayed. I personally couldn't deal with having puppies or kittens around and having to give them up. For some odd reason I can do it with my fosters but if one of my own pets reproduced I'd quickly become a hoarder.

I don't think my pets need to supply other people with pets anymore than I need to supply the world with my own offspring.

And I don't have to deal with cats or dogs in heat nor the males hanging around when they are in heat.

I prefer to live in a stress-free environment at least where my pets are concerned. That is one aspect I can control. There's no little else I can.

marynh

I wouldn't have my husband neutered just because a doctor or  neighbor thinks I should......

I think they all should be.

Is that husbands or all dogs in the US.

Biffymnstr

I'm also not sold on the idea of neutering him for other reasons.  If it is never an issue, why should he get a surgery? 

This is the only statement of yours that gives me concern. In everything else, you might be on your way to becoming a responsible breeder. And, obviously, there are a few who have intact pets.

There are health issues that can be avoided by neuter/spay. The primary issue that is solved by neuter/spay is that there is not another litter of dogs that wind up at the shelter at 1 year old. Truly legit breeders have a take-back policy which can be expensive. They also don't start a breeding until the have owners lined up. And then have to wait for the next cycle. But other issues, in a male, are prostatitis, perianal hernia, and testicular cancer, which can spread. As for emotional reasons, I can't say it in an easy way. The dog does not place psychological and emotional value on procreation and sexual activity like a human does. They do not miss it. Males live longer neutered because it takes away the urge to jump the fence and find that female he can smell from a mile away and wind up getting hit by a car. I knew a lady that owns a Yellow Lab. Purebreed, with lineage going back several generations, all show winners, basically a stellar line. This dog has the sweetest temperment, an 80 lb marshmallow that adores kids. She has a CGC and a therapy dog rating and can be off leash in the middle of the deli section of a grocery store, where  I happen to meet her. And she is spayed, never having bred.

I understand that you may want to breed and hopefully for the right reason, to improve the breed. If it turns out that the tests show a not so hot outcome for a litter, please neuter. No, it doesn't have to be right now. I got my dog when he was 1 year and 2 months. And I had him neutered at 2 and a half years. Once I had decided he should not breed and I had the time and money, he was neutered.

It's good that you are looking at health certs. You should should hopefully have research results on his parents, as well as that of any dam you may pick. As well as the resulting other litters of those parents.

And I find purebreeds at the local shelter in my rural county. People started out doing the right thing and the dog still ended up there. At our local shelter, I saw a female Shiba Inu. That is extremely rare, let alone in our area. Yet, there she was. I'm not trying to scare you off of breeding or guilt you into neuter. But if there is to be no breeding, whenever you decide that, please, please, neuter.

ron2

There are health issues that can be avoided by neuter/spay. The primary issue that is solved by neuter/spay is that there is not another litter of dogs that wind up at the shelter at 1 year old. Truly legit breeders have a take-back policy which can be expensive. They also don't start a breeding until the have owners lined up. And then have to wait for the next cycle.

Ron your entire post was well worth repeating but this thought in particular is sooooo important. The Rhodesian Ridgeback club is one of the best funded breed rescues in the US yet we are still shocked by the morons who dump dogs. There was a recent alert 9 yes nine purebred RRs were dumped at a New York City shelter , the dam and 8 babies.... get this the babies were over a year old!!! the "breeder" was unable to find homes for the litter for a number of reasons, the first , it was poorly bred, no testing , no pre-natal care etc  the second??? they got ethics AFTER the girl was expecting and would not sell to "just anyone"   so after a year of 8 babies in the home they dumped them plus momma.     I could scream!!   Rescue speant a fortune cleaning up this moron's mess.  I fund raise year round to help rescue WHY ?? Because we breed,  granted it is rare and very carefult planned but hey if you bring them into the world you better take care of them, even if they aren't yours. The original posters comment about if we all S/N there wouldn't be any best friends doesn't wash.  Check the facts about the MILLIONS PTS every year in our country.  If you wish to claim love of a specific breed then why , why, why aren't you involved in your national club? Or showing or Rescue ?

I know showing isn't for everyone I get it... but do you all understand that because breed owners get lazy or stay uninvolved the PETA freaks of the world continue to push legislation that can and may take away your right to own a dog let alone an intact one. Many areas charge large fees to allow you to keep your pet intact. Other areas like my own don't even license dogs. They think themselves put upon because they are required to get rabies sigh....  By showing we educate. I know people who have stared in amazement at the pitbull rings to see them work and socialize in crowed situations... they look at me and say  "But the news swears these dogs are ALL dangerous!!"  Showing opens the door for education in a million ways.  You learn to evaulate your beloved furkid and it helps you to choose if they will add to the breed or be part of what may well destroy it.  doesn't mean you love your furbaby less just means you care enough about the breed to wish it no harm.

You claim to be a responsible person, my challenge to that would be a simple one, if you are uninvolved,  if you do not have homes lined up that you would consider leaving your two legged child to, if you do not research the health issues totally... you are NOT a responsible potential breeder.  I have already explained the uninvolved issue,  the second is important, if you wouldn't trust the folks with the fruit of your own loins what would make you think they could / would be as careful and concerned as you believe yourself to be? If they get an accidental breeding because life get's complicated for 10 minutes do you think yourself not responsible?  say you only produce 5 puppies. and all 5 stay intact... even if only three breed and three of thier get breeds do you see the damage done?  And if as the begining of this line you chose poor homes then how many will be pure bred ? How many will ignore health issues and poor breeding because YOU didn't worry about it?  Finally the health issues you seem to think you have a clue about don't happen after you discover a "bump down there" Cancer can metastize with out ever breaking the skin.  It can spread like wild fire growing until your adored furchild hasn't a hope of treatment and you are forced to watch them go from a vibrant happy dog to a wasting sorroful thing, are you going to cry when you find out it was preventable or more likely not have the necropsy done to tell you WHY? 

Not to be tacky but simply honest a dog's heart and soul isn't found in his gonads. If you didn't raise , groom and train well it won't be there at all. I require all of my companion pups to be S/N I do have an enforceable Breeder Take Back clause and shoule am owner surprize me and break our agreement I have a contract that not only allows me to go on thier property and retrieve my pup but to sue them for 5000.00 in damages plus legal fees   Breeding isn't for sissies Breeding is for people who will do the work, become educated and devoted to the breed. Anything else and you are indeed a BYB or Miller.  There are NO accidents just ignorant folks who didn't give an darn.

Bonita of Bwana

To all of you that are waiting for medical reasons to neuter your dog: what if your dog is geriatric when he develops the problem? Anesthesia and the post op complications are more difficult in the older dog. I'm a vet tech with an interest in anethesia and have anesthetized hundreds of pets. In the 13 years that I have been working in private practice, I have lost only one dog under anesthesia. It was an 11 year old that we had to neuter and remove a perianal adenoma.  You better believe that I will encourage everyone to spay or neuter their pet at a young age. Even if you breed, you should spay/neuter as soon as those breeding years are over.

It's your dog!  That's kind of rude of people to say anything otherwise.  Especially since you are considering breeding.  Back in the day....we had a male cairen terrier and he was never fixed.  Don't know why?  It was my sister's dog, probably just wasn't a big issue at the time.  My poor little Tabitha has never been spayed, and I know, her risk for ovarian cancer....etc.  But I was planning on breeding her, but then she never got over 4 lbs. and I thought, heck I can't breed her, I don't think I could find a male small enough, she'd probably get split in half.  So, I never bred her, and I know (I'm bad), I never got her spayed either.  But she's going on 13 yrs. old (this Jan.) and she's fine.  In fact, she's the only one in her family still alive!  So, I must have done something right!  But Misty, I did get spayed, because well, with females, we don't want a litter of mutts or any other kind!  I don't plan on breeding, so we took the safe route.  Otherwise, I would just tell people, I can't get him fixed if I want to breed?  It doesn't work very well, when you do it that way!  Duh!

Again, this comes down to the issue of RESPONSIBLE breeding. 

If you truly think it is no ones business, then please volunteer in a shelter, foster some throw away dogs/pups, and then tell us that it isn't anyones concern when people don't breed responsibly.