Sassy and the continuing saga

    Cathy, I'm glad you are going to relax a little and trust this vet. If she's as qualified as you said in your previous post, she should be able to help. Sassy has had a rougher time than Jessie did and I remember how worried I was about her, so it's understandable that you "fell apart" and had doubts about this vet helping Sassy. I'm glad you're feeling better today and hope that the treatments help Sassy's infections.

Hi Cathy, how is it going?  I am still curious about the pork you are feeding Sassy.  I am to assume that the vet knew for sure that she had never eaten pork before??  It is true that I hardly have seen pork listed on dog food, how come??  It is a fairly inexpensive meat.  My sister in law still says that pork is not good for an animals overall health, something to do with it's kidneys or something.  Have you fed Sassy ground pork for convenience?  Brandie is still scratching . Sometimes I think less and then other times not.  It is very confusing.  She still hates her food but of course has no choice.  I am upset about the patches of black skin on her body since her shave down.  An article on line said that is the yeast coming through her skin, so is that a sign that the diet is working or not??Guess I will call my vet on that one.  Thinking about putting $$on a teeth cleaning.  Hope it is not a waste.  I am still very leary about the allergy tests , their accuracy and then the dreaded shots and $$$. I still worry about cancer from them as someone mentioned may happen.  Can't go through that pain again.  I think I do need to worry  about the couple of beggin strips that she found at my Mom's.  Does it mean that the diet is scrapped now back to the beginning????  I want to be able to visit people and bring her along!!What if it is dust mites then  the whole diet thing is in vain.      

I sure am no expert,,,just read a lot about allergies and all because of Ollie the Dane,,but I seriously think that we put too much thinking into food allergies and not contact allergies.  Ollie is allergic to dust and grass,,,and that is not laying on grass, its breathing air that has grass....can't avoid that.  His allergy shots desensatized him from those allergies. He still scratches a bit here or there, but maybe all dogs do, maybe  its not from allergies. But you know there is no way in the world we can keep him away from dust or grass!

 Cindy;  Here is a link  about pork from a very good pet food company that uses pork in their foods:

             [linkhttp://www.eaglepack.com/pages/digestible_meat.html]http://www.eaglepack.com/pages/digestible_meat.html[/link]

     Wow, you really sound confused and worried. I think you should ask the vet about the black spots on her skin, so you'll know what they are. Jessie used to get black discoloring  between the pads on her paws. It was saliva stains from her licking them, caused by the protein in the saliva. It was a thin film and would peel off. What you describe sounds different.
     Even though Jessie went through the skin and blood testing and had good results, I totally understand your skeptism about allergy testing because some here have expressed doubts about its reliability. Here is what I think may make the difference between a good and poor outcome;
      1.Who you go to; It's important that you go to someone who has specific training in the field of  veterinary dermatology if you can. I'm speaking from experience here. The veterinary dermatologist was much more knowledgeable about how allergies effect a dog's immune system and skin than our regular vet. Did you know that allergies actually change the ph of a dog's skin, which makes it more prone to infection? I learned that from the dermatologist that Jessie goes to. They can interpret the results from the skin test better than a regular vet because the test results are subjective and requires experience to interpret.
   2. You have to be willing to except the fact that the injections won't start showing effectiveness for at least four weeks, in some cases as long as six months, but in most cases they will help by three months. It requires patience, and some people don't stick with it. We noticed significant improvement in two months.
   3. You need to maintain communication with the dermatologist. If you are giving the shots according to the derm vet's schedule, and suddenly your dog becomes itchy again, you need to let the derm vet know so they can adjust the schedule to what's best for your dog. Jessie receives a shot once every two weeks most of the year, but fall is her worst time so she needs a shot once a week from September to October.

Our vet does the "dreaded shots" for $10.00. They also keep the vaccine at the clinic, and of course measure the correct amount in the syringe for the shot, so I think ten bucks is very reasonable, and I don't need to make an appointment since the techs can do it. I used to do the shots myself, and honestly it's simple, but I was always nervous and it took me at least 30 minutes to decide where to put the needle in her skin, which made Jessie nervous. It takes the vet techs a few seconds, and I give Jessie a treat just before and after the shot. I have heard about the cancer issue before, and honestly think it's a myth or I wouldn't do this to Jessie, but that's my opinion. The only place I saw it in a book was ,"The Nature of Animal Healing", by Martin Goldstein. You should read his remarks for yourself, but his reasoning was that since Golden Retrievers are known for having cancer more that many breeds, and allergies are common in Goldens too, he thinks there could be a connection between allergy shots and cancer. Although I loved reading the book, my problem with his logic is that it is unknown how many Goldens with allergies receive allergy shots, and there has not been a study to see if there is a correlation between them and cancer.

Well, I've rambled and bored you enough, but I hope this is of some help in deciding what to do for Brandy.
  

Hey Cindy, Dyan and Janice - We're halfway thru the prednisone with Sassy and fortunately, I haven't noticed any problems but can't really tell a difference in the yeast infection.  She still has about 10 days left of the Ketaconazale and the Clindamycin though, so I think the vet is hoping that in conjunction with the prednisone, the infections will FINALLY clear up.  Then we decide which direction to go.
I was actually very surprised when I met with the derm vet last week and discussed the allergy testing and serum.  She just seemed more interested in the possibility of using Atopica (Cyclosporine).  She said that she thought they both (allergy testing/serum and Atopica) can be very useful but it depends on what the problem is and I "think" her fear is that in the months it might take to get the serum levels up, Sassy might've had more flare-ups and infections.  I'll discuss that more in the next couple weeks when I see her again.  She did agree with what we're all thinking in that it is highly likely an environmental allergy as opposed to a food allergy.  She still wants me to continue the elimination diet though and felt comfortable that the pork was something she'd not likely had before.  The vet didn't recommend I use pork though.  The vet I spoke to at that time suggested rabbit or kangaroo...well, I have no idea where to get that locally and I need to feed Sassy 5 cups of food a day, so that could get pretty darn expensive with something like rabbit or kangaroo.  I thought of pork and couldn't think of anything she'd ever had with it in it.  I can say that since making the switch, she hardly poops at all [], so that's been a plus.
I'm skeptical about the cancer link to serum injections too.  Even if it's true to some extent, what's the alternative?  I mean honestly - if I had to make a choice of having Sassy live happy and healthy for 8-10 years, versus being miserable with itching and infections for 10-12 years, I'd choose the shorter, happier life.  Besides that, the use of antibiotics for all these infections can't be very healthy either.  I say this having lost a dog to cancer, so it's not something I ever want to experience again, but having a dog with chronic health problems, it also heartbreaking.  Let's face it, it stinks any way you look at it, so it's a matter of choosing the lesser of the 2 evils.  

I just wanted to add that if your dog gets as sick as Ollie used to, if he is suffereing as much as he used to, if he doesn't want to eat half the time and gets pretty thin, if he keeps showing how unhealthy that these allergies are making him, you have to wonder how much you want to worry about that study,,or no study of cancer and allergy shots...   I'm not for giving my dog anything that is going to hurt him/her, but gee Ollie was truely suffering in his own way with his allergies. He was giving steriods to calm the allergies down and we for sure know that they are not good for the dog. I do'nt believe anitbiotics are good for you except for when you need them to stop infection, and he was always on them also. That was not good for him. There truely was nothing else for us to think about for him.
I think its worth the $10 to have the vet administer the shots but Mike (my son-Ollies dad) didn't and he jumped right in,,,had the vet show him how and he was set.  I was pretty surprised at how he took on that responsibility!  He had the serum in the fridge for the whole time, and never had a problem. After the second or third time it was a "piece of cake" for him. 

Jesse and Cathy, what is the cost of the whole allergy testing and shots?  Just a ballpark figure so if I do decide to do this I will be somewhat prepared.  Here in Canada the derm vet will charge me $145.00 for the consult only.  So what should I expect after that?

     Well Cindy, I took Jessie to a veterinary teaching hospital, (the best one in the state, and fortunately one of the best in the country),  which usually charge less than private clinics, so I don't know how the fees would compare to what you would pay, but here goes:
        1. The consultation fee was $104 the first time, but only $25 each time after that to this day.
         2.The blood test cost $110.  Expect lots of tests the first visit, thyroid, urinalysis, bacterial and fungal cultures of irritated areas on her skin. The total for Jessie was $392,  including the $104 consultation fee, all the lab work, the allergy blood test, and ointment for her feet plus a prescription antihistamine. 
         
         3. The skin test was done on the second visit and it was $140. The sedation for the test was $36.
          4. The immunotherapy vaccine was $167, and that is still what it costs. Now that Jessie is on maintenance, I only have to buy it a few times a year.
 
      
                                                                                                                         

Did you see a dermatologist? Sally

I have a derm. for Trudy. I give her the shots from her serum weekly. It has been great. She also takes a good Antihistamine. Sally

Hey Cathy, how are you and Sassy doing?  Just thought I would mention that I was eating spaghetti squash tonight.   Well it is okay.  Really prefer a winter squash instead.  This all came about when I started on a diet awhile back.  Anyhoo, poor Brandie was just staring at me.  Oh ya, I was eating leftover KFC too, not on the diet (he,he).  So I offered her a little squash and she gobbled it up.  Poor dog is so hungry and stubborn.  Hates her Eukanuba.  hope it is okay as she never ate squash here before!!!!!Now it did have a little olive oil becel on it!  I am always offering her fruit and some veggies when she is starting to beg now, as she never did before.  She always turns them down.  Too funny with the squash though. Watch her get the poops!! 

Hi Sally, I love Trudy's picture. If you're asking me, the answer is yes.

That IS a really cute picture of Trudy

If the question about the derm vet was to me, the answer is also "yes" also.
 
Cindy - I think that giving them stuff like squash is great (as long as you're not doing an elimination diet, like me).  Both of my dogs love stuff like that too.  Sassy has been ravenous too (more than usual) and I'm guessing some of it's from the Prednisone.  Tonight is her last dose.  I do worry that the homecooking isn't filling her up as much as kibble did and she lost a pound in 4 weeks from starting it to the vet visit last week, so I'm giving her more. 
 
Funny thing, but she seems itchier and yeastier this last few days and that's after one week of prednisone and another week of Ketaconazale and Clindamycin.  I'll be taking her back in next week for a recheck, so I'll discuss that with the vet.  Just seems hard to imagine she's still itchy after all these darn medications.

Thanks for the compliment guys. Trudy takes her antigin shot, med, good food and this spring she is itchy. So much pollen. I am sneezing, it will get better soon. I hope your  doggie feels better soon. Sally