my poor pomeranians matts!!

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Wow give yourself a huge pat on the back groomer in training for being...um so knowledgable of the Shih Tzu breed and saying it was Not double coated, lol!  Oh, and I would say several of us do know that there are different types of double coat....but hey you are the one who knows so much and said that they were not double coated originally....or did you forget....[]but hey I own one so what would I possibly know?...lol

I have a friend who breeds poms and their coats are different..doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.  All of her dogs have full coats and are brushed daily.

Did ya ever think that maybe the dog had to be shaved for health reasons or maybe someone did it for functionality?  What the heck does it matter whether they shave em in mohawk style?  Better to have short cut that can be matt free then not.

My Shih Tzu was a rescue who was badly matted when they got him and they shaved him.  I am grooming him daily and bathing him weekly and allowing him to grow it out.  Not sure if we will go to full coat or not depends. 
Hey that means I got him shaved and therefore he should stay that way cuz you said quote: i just dont agree with changing a dog so drastically when you bought it that way. ...lol

I do agree that when getting a dog one should be aware of the grooming required for upkeep...and one shouldn't complain if they allowed the coat to get out of hand because they could not be bothered.
But then again if it gets out of hand they need to get it shaved or whatever is needed to be done.
 
Oh and as far as the OP its her own vanity and selfishness that will not allow her to shave the dog when it is necessary.  Poor dog.

I can tell you exactly why I have mine in either a puppy cut or a teddy bear cut it's because grooming stresses them out. I've always done some sort of grooming to mine everyday, full coat or not but I'm not going to fight them to brush them everyday.
 
Same reason for me not having them in a topknot. They are much happier w/less grooming, as am I. Less stress on all of us. They would pull their topknots out and a couple of times I've had to call the vet. and just wait for the band or bow to pass in stool or vomit. There have been a couple of times in the begining that I've come close to hurting Eve's eyes because she stresses soo much during her grooming. It's just not worth it. Now espicially w/less hair to brush we're all happy.
 
I went to the AKC site and read the difference between double and undercoats/guard hairs and I wanted to thank you for pointing that out. I'm always happy to learn more about the babies I have and am not ashamed to admit if I was wrong on something. I don't like confrontation either and am sorry if I've spoken in my posts in a way that offends anyone.

why did you get a chow if you were going to shave it? i just dont agree with changing a dog so drastically when you bought it that way.

I shaved her for medical reasons.  And, I didn't buy her. And, there is no questioning the level of care my dog gets. 
And, she's impeccably groomed any day of the week. 

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OK, you are a very rude person. You're attacking me for no reason.  Why are you so defensive. 
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You make assumptions about what I do and do not know about grooming.  Also, my post very clearly stated that there is the occasional health issue that might prevent the coat from growing back properly.  And, never once said it wouldn't harm them "in any way".  Cuz, if you get a person in training or someone else who doesn't know what they are doing the dog could get burned. 

And, anyone who thinks a undercoat rake is totally comfortable for a dog, go use a slicker brush or a pin brush or any other type of brush.  Then use a rake, you will see a difference in the dogs tolerance of it.  They pull, they are meant to pull and how can anyone think that's comfortable??

  i dont really know why you are all questioning my job position

I was questioning it because there is a difference between the way you represented yourself in the other thread.  And, I've noticed the "trainees" do the bathing and brushing and the "groomer" does the cutting.  And, we are talking about cutting/shaving here.  And, you are making statements and have said you are a groomer which isn't quite the case. 

As long as this post is still active could someone tell me what to do with the things that I have circled on the picture. Some I don`t think should ever be used on Molly and some that I won`t use. On one of the rakes the teeth rotate. The slicker brush is really firm. The one I use is really soft. Would a shelter be in need of this stuff or not??? Forgot to say the zoom groom just glides over Molly in the bath and I do not do the circluar motion with her hair when giving her a bath or it would causes mats.

The three with blades are dematting tools. I wouldn't use them, unless you have a good groomer show you how. You could cut her, with them. Personally, the only one of those I own is the white with grey handled one. I like it, and do NOT like the other two types. I feel that they're dangerous, in my (inexperienced, but very careful) hands.

The one on the far right is an undercoat rake. You don't need it. A shelter would probably love to have it. The one at the bottom right is just a comb, but is also fabulous for undercoat removal. The shelter would love the Zoom Groom. I don't think I've ever used one  on a dog with Molly's coat type (she's Shih Tzu and Poodle, right?).

The last circled tool (towards the top left, between the two dematting tools) looks like another undercoat rake. Are the teeth hard?

Purplex, I shave my terrier, routinely. What do you have to say about that? LOL Pet dogs and show dogs are a totally different story. Pet dogs do not need their coats to be cherished companions, and it is cruel to demat a dog. I'm sorry. I don't care how gently you do it, no dog of mine will be dematted.

Thoes are all the tools i needed when i was trying to dematt Rowan ( rough collie) He was a mess when he came to us.Unfortunately i didnt have thoes tools!

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jennie- about you shaing your terrier, i say go ahead and keep doing. your dog does not have undercoat, therefore shaving him will have no long term effect on your dog.

Incorrect. Try again. Shaving terriers is a HUGE taboo. It often totally ruins the coat. My dog's coat is completely soft, from being shaved since she was 5 months old. It should be hard and wirey.

Nobody mentioned show dogs, but the ONLY dog whose coat "matters" is a show dog. Otherwise, it's just a pet dog, and if it's matted, it should be shaved. Breed and coat type do not matter. Show dogs are very unlikely to find themselves matted, because their coats are valued, and maintained regularly.

BTW, how will you know that the dog is in pain from brushing? Dogs are *very* good at hiding pain. I have a dog with two broken teeth. The roots are exposed. One has been broken for quite some time, and the other was just broken a couple of weeks ago. She also had 15 or so bladder stones, until last week. She never showed a sign of pain, until she started passing bladder stones, and couldn't walk. That's some pretty extreme pain, if you ask me, and nobody knew til it was an emergency.

ok yes shaving a terrier will turn their coat, which should be wiry and coarse, into a softer coat. however this is a lot better than the effects of shavig a dog with undercoat.
 
how do i know if a dog is feeling pain when being brushed? um it wont let you do it. you know what, my golden retriever had cancer in his bladder. we did not know until it was too late to save him because he showed no signs of illness. so your right dogs can hide pain. but when you are standing next to a dog brushing it, and it knows you are brushing it, and it genuinly hurts him, he will let you know. they will try and scoot away, they will bark, howl, growl, even the nicest dogs will try and bite. why dont you try and brush out a severly matted dog and let me know if it shows any signs of pain. my guess is you have never tried to brush any dog
 
ashow dogs are the only dogs whose coat matters? so a dog like a newfoundland, who has a coat that keeps him warm in the winter and cool in the summer, can be shaved simply because it isnt a show dog? the answer is no. just because i dog is now a show dog does not mean you should do whatever you want with the coat. ifyou get a long haired dog you should maintain it so it doesnt have to be shaved. people will do what they will with their dogs, but i will not sit here and say that it is good for them.
 

This is fantastic. I've never brushed any dog! I love it[]

Purplex, in my great abilities as a long time board member, I'm guessing you'll be gone in a week, tops. This conversation is a smidge silly.

And yes, I've shaved quite a few Newfs. Thier coats did not matter, because they were not kept brushed. An unbrushed coat is not a coat that matters. It is no longer of any use.

Perplexed, I respect the conviction in which you speak your opinions, but I do have to disagree with several of your theories.
 
First, let's address your statement that shaving alters a dogs coat. The act of shaving, in itself, does not physiologically alter the growth of the hair unless there is a systemic problem. Growth is regulated and controlled by several of the endocrine controls within the body, so if something is amiss, it will alter hair growth. Shaving is merely cosmetic and CAN"T change the rate of growth by itself if done correctly and without injury to the skin and hair follicles. Shaving CAN however, alter hair texture if it is done repeatedly over time.
 
Secondly, you stated

"i have already said that if a dog is severly matted, or needs it for medical reasons, then im all for shaving. but it is not good for any dog that has a coat for insulation, GENERALLY SPEAKING."  

 
So, if you apply this statement to all dogs, how do you justify shaving a SHOW POODLE with a #40 blade over 60% of it's body? Poodle's were originally breed to be water retriever's in very cold water and needed their CORDED (matted) coat to keep their joints and limbs warm and to increase bouancy. So, would you say it's OK (by todays standards) to let your poodle become corded or would you proclaim it's OK to shave this breed that needed it's coat for insulation?
 
Third, Terriers ARE double coated breeds and you can pick apart your words to suit your needs at the time, but any dog with more than ONE type of coat is going to have an undercoat. Granted, the texture may be different, BUT my point is there is an undercoat.
 
Fourth, while I have only been grooming (not a groomer in training, but a full charge groomer) for a short time, I have an education in animal care, was a certified cosmetology instructor (licensed by my state), and a practicing cometologist, so I have worked with HAIR (of one type or another) for the better part of 30 years. This is not simply my opinion or the opinions of others, but is based on a SCIENCE.
 
I will say, I am not intending to come across as rude or hateful, but you will take it however you feel the need. You really should consider being a bit more tasteful in your future comments if you want a more respect from the other members. You might also want to do a bit of homework before posting information that you may be slamming others for.
 
 
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: purplex15
jennie- about you shaing your terrier, i say go ahead and keep doing. your dog does not have undercoat, therefore shaving him will have no long term effect on your dog........

JRTs DO have undercoats.  They have a thick undercoat, with tight, coarse topcoat, or guard hairs, to be exact.  I raise, train, groom, and show these guys, so I do consider myself to be very knowlegeable in the breed.  Shaving them does affect their coat texture, on some.  I handstrip(you do know that that is don't you) most of them, but I have a few that I shave.  Some of them have come back in soft, which is fine if they are not being shown, and others have retained their coarse texture.  The majority of shaved terriers will have soft hair after repeated shaving.  Their colors will not be as brilliant either.  Handstripping removes the dead hair and allows for new hair to grow in.  Shaving leaves the old hair, and dulls the colors.  Again, not all, but most.  What makes the coat become that cottony soft fluff is that it all becomes one length.  When you feel the coarse double coat of a terrier, it is because their hair is tons of different lengths.  Shaving it all to one length leaves all that soft undercoat and then it just keeps growing the same length and feels softer.  If you were to handstrip a few times after a shavedown, the coarse texture can sometimes be restored.  It allows for NEW hair to come in which will closer to the correct type and tons of different lengths.  Right now, I have my female stripped down to her undercoat and she is very soft, but once the new hair starts growing back in, she will be perfectly coarse again!
Now...that was the lesson in Russell Grooming 101 for the day!