Neurological issues anyone?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Neurological issues anyone?

    Has anyone had a dog who started experiencing neurological problems? If so, I need ideas, comments, suggestions, stories...something. Brown is a 14 year old Lab who probably hasn't let out a real bark in years. He instead makes a honking noise lol. Until recently, he had been in very good health despite his age. His vet said that he wished all old Labs looked like him. He's still very active for his age, but he has had problems staying upright since his first vestibular incident a few months ago. About a year ago, his senior blood panel showed his thyroid levels at low normal, but they weren't low enough to warrant medication. His coat was horrendous, though, and he was about as lazy as they come. He also had started chattering his teeth when he yarned. Several months ago, I took him to the vet because of this gagging issue. I researched as much as I could and suspected laryngeal paralysis, which the vet confirmed. He had a round of Baytril just in case it was URI and has since stayed on prednisone (1/2 daily) to reduce any inflammation that occurred because of the constant gagging. Since then, that issue improved tremendously. He hardly ever makes that gagging noise anymore. The vet also ran bloodwork again and decided to put him on thyroid meds since thyroid problems have been linked to neuromuscular issues, like vocal chord paralysis, laryngeal paralysis, and teeth chattering. The thyroid meds have lit a fire in him, and he has since gone back to doing things like he hasn't done in ages (namely digging in the garbage and stringing it across the house). However, about a month after starting the thyroid meds, he was slapped hard with a vestibular event. The vet gave him IV fluids and observed him and was pretty certain that we were looking at signs of vestibular disease, but he told me that I should monitor his condition for several days. If he improved, it more than likely was a vestibular event rather than something like a brain tumor. He did improve, and by a week later, you'd swear nothing ever had happened. He has never had another massive event like that since, but from time to time, he has been wobblier on some days more than others. Sometimes he's walking a little crooked. Other times he's walks so crookedly that his butt looks like it's going to walk in front of his face. Then, sometimes he flies up the steps like he's a puppy. It's so sporadic that I can't even identify a pattern. His back legs are noticeably weaker, but he's not arthritic. It's like his brain can't shoot off messages to his legs fast enough. Yesterday afternoon, I was taking a nap and woke up because I heard him breathing heavily. I looked down the hall, and he was dragging himself to my room with his front paws. He had never done that before. I was in tears thinking that something worse had occurred. I got him to his feet, but he fell so I just sat with him. About 10 minutes later, as I'm relaying this story to my husband, while Addisen's feeding Brown fruity snacks lol, Brown gets up and trots to the front door to see what's going on outside. WTH!?! I thought things had gotten incredibly worse, and minutes later, he's upright like nothing had happened. He struggles to walk on our tile, so right now, my husband is off to the pet store to find rubberized booties. I'm sure Brown will be beyond thrilled with that, but I think they will help him grip better. I know all of these neurological things are connected to his thyroid, but his thyroid levels are good with the meds. Everything I've read says that neurological issues subside once thyroid levels normalize. What am I missing? As of his last blood panel, all other levels were fine. His appetite is as good as ever, and he doesn't sleep any more or less than before. In fact, aside from digging in the garbage and being a little peppier, he's had no behavioral changes.
    • Gold Top Dog

    Marlania, I don't have any experience with neurological issues or vestibular disease, so I don't have any helpful info to offer.  However, our dog Tonka had LP the last year or so of his life, and like Brown, his bloodwork was basically normal for thyroid -- but closer to the lower end.  So, we opted to give him thyroid meds because of the links to LP.  It did seem to help reduce some symptoms. 

    Are there other kinds of blood tests that can be run -- beyond the standard set of numbers they look at -- for example, something that looks for infections or parasites or something that cause neurological symptoms, like tick-related diseases or other kinds of things that don't show up in regular bloodwork?  Maybe there's something else going on, along with the LP.

    I hope he doesn't mind the booties.  If those don't work, I heard someone say they rolled out those thin yoga mats on their tile or wood floors in the paths where their dog walked when he had trouble slipping due to old age.  I thought that was great idea, because they're cheap and not bulky, and you can roll them up quickly if you have company or something and you don't want them out.

    I hope someone else comes along with more info for you.  Hugs to Brown -- sweet boy!

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    The only other thing the vet mentioned was referring him to a specialist for an MRI, but he said that he didn't think it was necessary. The booties are hilarious. He looks like a horse. They're a little too big so I probably will have to get him a smaller set. He does seem to have an easier time gripping, which leaves him upright much longer. Now he just high steps like a horse lol.
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    Don't have any suggestions for you Marlenia, just wishing your old boy well.
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    marlania
    The only other thing the vet mentioned was referring him to a specialist for an MRI, but he said that he didn't think it was necessary.

     

     The MRI is to see if he has a brain tumor, and it can also show if he has had strokes (though not always). If he doesn't like the booties, try using runners or throw rugs spaced so he can walk on them without stepping on the tile. Jessie is a GSD mix and will be 15 in October. She started slipping on our kitchen floor last fall so we put throw rugs in the kitchen and they work great. Jessie had a series of strokes last summer, three strokes in 2 months. They are like old dog vestibular disease except they recur. According to the neurologist we saw at Purdue Veterinary Teaching Hospital, old dog vestibular disease doesn't recur very often; a dog that has repeated events should be tested to see what's causing the symptoms.  He did an MRI, saying he was almost certain she had a brain tumor. Fortunately, she didn't, and other tests were done to see why she was having the vestibular events. She was diagnosed with high blood pressure and was also hypercoagulable. She was put on medication for the blood pressure and a generic of Plavix for the hypercoagulability. She hasn't had a stroke in nine months.  If Brown continues to have relapses, it may be worthwhile to see a specialist. It was absolutely worthwhile for Jessie. Like Brown, she is very active for her age in spite of her problems; I walked her for an hour today. I hope you figure out what's wrong with Brown.

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    OMG! You guys, tell me if this is possible....Brown has been known to be sensitive to flea meds throughout his life. On Friday, we applied Advantix II for only the second time ever. I ran across many posts from owners talking about how their dogs experienced hind limb paralysis within a couple of days after application. Brown's black legs became somewhat useless on Sunday. Is this connection possible? Most said it cleared up after about a week. Thoughts?
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    Crap -- typed it all out and lost it.

    I would tell you to send it to Dr. Dodds at Hemopet. You will get a breed-specific panel that will be **totally accurate** -- you can do just the Thyroid 5 profile or, honestly I would send her the Thyroid 5 Plus (which is a whole "super chem" that means she will analyze the whole thing and tell you what SHE thinks is going on).

    It is SO much more accurate than a regular lab -- and she knows EVERYTHING there is to know about thyroid and it's effects on everything. She will also tell you what she thinks of the Advantix involvement (not something I'd use -- it's prone to too many adverse reactions).

    **Big deal** -- you must have the blood draw scheduled 4-6 hours post pill -- that is a HUGE deal. The thyroid supp must be in the body and "working" for the read to be accurate.

    Also -- I would tell you to not bother with USPS nor UPS. Send it via Fed Ex if you're doing the full Thyroid 5 Plus -- it WILL get there for sure that way (I've sent it USPS trying to save money and if it's not there timely the blood is wasted plus whatever you paid to have the vet draw and process it).

    You can also email Dr. Dodds and just ASK her what she thinks. hemopet@hotmail.com -- she is awesome about working with owners
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    Right now, Brett is washing Brown down with Dawn, hoping to remove whatever he can. I hadn't used flea products in years, but this year, the fleas are horrible enough for me to get my yard sprayed by a very pet-friendly and knowledgable pest control guy. In years past, I used diatomaceous earth, but that just wasn't working this year. I tried Frontline Plus, and that didn't work as well as I remembered it working. So that's when I tried Advantix II. I also looked at the package just now and realized that Brown now falls under the weight range for it. Maybe he had too much? I just checked out Dr. Dodd's site and will email her tomorrow. Likewise, I will be making an appointment for Brown to go to the vet on Wed. Meanwhile, he just trotted out of the bathroom. This dog is so unpredictable!
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    Just checked back to see how Brown is doing ---- I'd say it sounds pretty darn reasonable that the flea treatment caused a problem.  If things clear up in a few days with no recurrences, that might be a good indication it was involved.  It's worth mentioning to the vet when you talk more about a possible MRI.

    Keep us posted!

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    Okay, we went to the vet this afternoon, but we don't have any definitive answers. The vet said his blood work was spectacular and that he looked and acted great until you got to his hind end lol. She thinks the Advantix II is just a coincidence; however, she did not rule it out because, like she said, Brown is old (and a bit of a weenie), so it's possible he reacted to it differently. She had him walk/flop and said that he showed no signs of being in pain. She flopped his legs, pressed on his spine, etc. and said that she could tell he hadn't been dragging his back feet and that he fixed them when she turned them in the dragging position. It took a little while for him to get it straight, but he managed. So they took him to the back for x-rays, which also were pretty unremarkable. His left hip is arthritic, and it's possible that it's exacerbating whatever he's got going, but that's ultimately not the problem. His back x-rays were pretty good as well because he showed very little signs of arthritis. There were a few spots where the space between the discs were smaller than others, but again, it wasn't remarkable. However, because everything about him is acting fine aside from his rear end, and because it happened so suddenly, she put him a higher dose of prednisone in case anything is inflamed. Hopefully it'll help, and he'll be up and at it again. If not, he's gonna need a wheelchair...seriously. lol She also said that, should this really not work, she can send him to a neurologist. So as I'm typing this, Brett just brought Brown back into the house from his crate. He said that when he got to the garage (where the crates are), Brown was standing in his kennel. I'm like, WTH!?! He couldn't stand earlier at all. Then, a little while ago, I heard him walking in the house. I couldn't believe it. Of course, he fell like a couple of second later, but he made a lap around the kitchen on his own. I'm seriously confused by this dog. lol
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    My boy is walking and can get up on his own. He's favoring his left side, but he's looking so much better! Thank God!!!
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    Good -- honestly that's about the best you could have hoped for!! YAY!!! Let me know if I can help in any way!!
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    PS -- a friend of mine is having really good luck with Critter Oil -- sold by some company out of St. Peteersburg, FL -- I've got a querying email out to them.
    • Gold Top Dog

     ((( hugs ))); That's great news; I hope he keeps improving. You said he has arthritis in his left hip; was he on any pain medications for it? If not, you may want to try some to see if it helps him get around better, especially since he's favoring the side that's arthritic. You will want to get your vet's opinion of course. Jessie has arthritis in both rear knees and in the lower part of her spine. She did well except for occasional limping until a few months ago, when she began limping more often. We consulted with our vet and he started her on a low dose of Tramadol; he said it was very safe. After a few days of the Tramadol we saw a lot of improvement; she stopped limping and her back legs seemed stronger. She slips a lot less now and even walks at a faster pace than she used to when we take her for walks. What we didn't know was that the pain from the arthritis affected her ability to use her rear legs very well.

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    I'm glad the Xrays didn't show anything really severe . . . hopefully this was just a passing flare-up due to old age, arthritis, or the flea treatment.  Maybe it's worth trying a low dose of pain meds like jessies_mom suggested.  That, along with massage or acupuncture might be enough to keep Brown feeling as good as possible.

    Give him some ear rubs from me!