Allergy testing

have ha several of the worst allergy dogs on the planet -- and honestly, Kelly, there is no "easy" or stock answer. 

 You can only remove the allergen from the environment IF IT IS allergies, if it's something you *can* remove.  Food allergies are very real, but they are often secondary to atopic (inhaled/environmental) allergens.  And honestly, it's rare when you get ONE allergen you can simply act on.  Most of tthe time there are multiple allergens -- and if you get the big heavy-duty allergy test done (which is pricey) you likely wind up with something like oak, maple, dust mites, mold(s) -- and if you own a home surounded by trees, and you have wall paper thru your home?  oops!!

I have a friend who had a small terrier with the WORST skin.  She did all sorts of careful food trials, and she had kept scrupulous track of the seasons.  She was convinced much of it was simply atopic seasonal allergies, but the dog's skin was SO bad they went to Cornell for allergy testing.

First off - it's one thing that MAY be way to your best advantage to go to a vet school for.  IF YOU DECIDE to do this, call around.  You may be shocked to find out what a big trip to a vet school may save you (literally it can be thousands of dollars). 

But in my friend's situation, it was a total surprise.  Yes, he was allergic to the whole litany of NE US enironmental stuff (maple, oak, dust, etc.) BUT the one thing overwhelmingly that was his drop dead TOP allergen?

Feathers!!

A **very** unusual dog allergen, actually.  But .. of course they slept with feather pillows and a feather duvet!!  They got a hypo-allergenic cover for the duvet and covers for the pillows and WOW -- a huge huge difference in just a couple of weeks.

My point is this -- there almost is no rock-solid "point".  It's different with every animal. 

But as I said on Facebook - DO NOT rush into allergy testing.  It can be very expensive, but honestly before you do that you want some bloodwork and MOST OF ALL you want a thyroid test that is absolutely top notch - like either to MIchigan State or to Dr. Dodds at Hemopet.  Because if there IS a thyroid problem (and it can be puppy to senior dog) you won't get ANYWHERE until the thyroid problem is resolved and frankly it can be the easiest "fix" of all.  But you can spend a bit over $100 on a breed-specifc thyroid test (even if a mix) and get an answer you can actually hang a treatment on -- and THEN if that shows nothing you can move forward.  But I wouldn't jump into allergy tests fast.

Also - what dose of Benedryl are you using?  The actual dose is 1-2 mg/lb body weight -- meaning a 25 pound dog MUST have at least 1 twenty-five mg. capsules twice a day.  MINIMUM.  Yes, it makes them tired but less is gonna do nothing.  And there are other antihistamines to try. 

But work your way thru a logical plan -- otherwise you'll just throw money at it until you run out and you may not find the answer.

   Hi Kelly; haven't seen you around for awhile. I don't know if you remember Jessie or her history with allergies, but our experience with allergy testing and the shots has been very positive. Before I had Jessie tested, I tried giving her antihistamines and fish oil (the combination is more effective for allergies that giving either one by itself). I also bought a HEPA vacuum, gave her more frequent baths (she hates baths), and I tried to eliminate dust mites as much as possible by frequent vacuuming, using an 3M ultra allergen filter, and washing our bed clothes in hot water every week. I also tried quercitin and other holistic supplements but they didn't help. I had Jessie tested by a dermatologist at a vet teaching hospital; she did both skin and blood testing. I learned that Jessie was highly allergic to many weed and grass pollens, and her worst allergy was dust mites, which explained why she had problems year round. The dermatologist also had me do an elimination diet (which is a good idea if you haven't done one yet), and I learned that Jessie was allergic to (drum roll); chicken, fish, pork, potatoes, brewer's yeast, and barley. I put her on a diet that avoided her food allergies but it wasn't enough to stop her from licking her feet until they bled, so the dermatologist started her on allergen immunotherapy. She used to need antibiotics every month (not kidding) for skin infections, and I frequently had to apply an ointment on her feet that had an antibiotic and a steroid. She hasn't needed those treatments for years. Testing blood for allergies is much more accurate then it used to be and many dermatologists now consider it as effective as skin testing, so your vet can draw the blood and have it sent to a lab that does the testing if you don't have a veterinary dermatologist in your area. I don't have time right now but if you'd like, I can post a few links later of studies that show that the majority of dogs on immunotherapy respond well. Got to run now.

 Janice

 My cat, Bobby, was a young 4 month old kitten when he arrived here.  He itched so badly he bled - all over his body and legs.  Poor thing! 

Tried a few things, with the vet and on my own, but after 2 months of getting nowhere, I took him to an allergist.  I believe she did the blood testing, but now I'm not sure (I didn't know they do skin testing as well until reading your post).  He was allergic to 3 types of grasses (all out the window in MY yard!) and 4 types of trees (in my yard and the next door neighbors', of course) and a few other minor things.  The test report came back as a chart, with those two things marked in red all the way to the end of the bar, while the "minor" ones just had a tip of red at the start of the bar.

I did the allergy shots with him for one year; since then he has been FINE.  He is now a healthy happy (er, naughty?) 6 year old, lol.

Hi Janice, I don't come around much (don't know why - you guys are so much help!). I just caught up on Jessie's thread and I'm sending good vibes for her healing and good health. Best wishes to you guys 

A little history - this is a stray I picked up last week. He's around 8mo old, looks like a white german shepherd but is only 22 lbs. His skin is red and inflamed and he has abrasion spots on his legs along with hair loss and bright pink thickened skin on his lower legs. He chews and scratches *constantly* without Benadryl intervention. He's on 50mg twice a day and easily needs 3x a day.

When I took him to the vet the day I found him, they thought his abrasions were related to being stray (like from running/sleeping on concrete?) But they didn't get a really good look and I hadn't had him long enough to notice the chewing/scratching. He's getting neutered Wednesday and they are going to take a good look at whatever may be going on then.

I don't know yet if he even needs allergy testing, but wanted to do some research on it just in case. I've never had a dog that literally will not take a break from chewing himself unless he has had some Benadryl.

Here are some pics of his skin:

And one more just for the heck of it 

 Ouch!  I came back as I wanted to say I gave the allergy shots myself here at home, but now I'm glad I came back.  Double OUCH!  The one pic that shows the back top of his left front leg, I couldn't be sure what I was seeing there, the shot is more distance.   My suggestions are based on the base of the legs (hocks?)  Have you tried applying neosporin to the sore spots? 

He is a white dog.  So just maybe . . . . put him on grain free food, and treats.  And use a low protein food, something under 30%.  Warning it is hard to find a grain free food that is low in protein!  Fish formulas are the ones to look at.

Bichons are prone to lots of food allergies; my Willy had an extensive yeast skin infection when I picked him up; his prior owners didn't know a thing about bichons specifically.  So that is my thinking, this dog also being white.  White dogs are more prone to skin allergies, for some reason: bichons, maltese, and white poodles.  So that is where my ideas are coming from, that he is a white one too.

And yes, we do use neosporin on bichons, even in places the dog could reach to lick; because once applied it helps stop the itch / hurt, as well as working on healing.   You can use a collar if you feel that is best.  I have an inflatable Procollar, the dog can easily eat and drink, and is not crashing into furniture the way they do with a plastic E-collar.  But if you do this, be sure you are around to keep applying the neosporin.  Some of us consider it "torture" to have the collar on and not relieve the owie, as then the dog can't reach it either, lol. 

I saw your post on FB and wanted to start by saying "thank you" for helping this guy. I had allergy testing done on Sassy after multiple, very serious, skin infections. They did the blood testing and not the skin test because we were afraid to take her off the benadryl for long enough to do the skin testing. She came back as off the charts on just about every environmental allergen around. We decided to try using Atopica and the rest is history. She's been on it for several yrs now and is doing beautifully. I did also switch her to the NB allergen foods and cut out all other treats. We give her the Atopica every 3rd day and at a slightly lower dose but use Ketaconazale (sp?) to enhance the affects. I know there's some concerns about using Atopica but she's 12ish now and as healthy as I could ever have hoped for.

Thanks guys! I just put him on Taste of the Wild fish formula because I had it for one of my other dogs. They all only get grain free treats. I'll try the Neosporin.

I should know more tomorrow after the vet gets a good look at him. His skin seems a little less red yesterday and today.

Finally got close ups of the back of his front legs (wiggly puppy ).

 I'll be interested what the vet says; I really do not think this is from lying on concrete!

 TOTW fish, that is what I would have suggested had you asked, lol.  

Healing prayers for this boy, and some cuddles too!

Well, it seems ironic that I posted about how healthy Sassy has been and then she got so ill last night but I still don't blame the Atopica.

I didn't notice if anyone else mentioned it, but I'd definitely consider a thyroid check. It's such an easy test and always seems like a good idea to rule out a problem.

Just seeing those pictures.

My vote?  perhaps atopic allergy **plus** CONTACT ALLERGY.  How does the belly look?  Yes, allergies do attack the feet (actually in that sort of allergy reaction the histamines "dance" in the skin and it literally feels to them like it feels to you when you've been sitting on your foot too long and you get the tingling feeling?

A contact allergy is something literally he's allergic to that he touches or contacts.  Poison Ivy is a big human contact allergen.  Dogs have about a zillion of them.  Poison oak, St. Augustine sod, wandering jew (any of 100 varieties), night-blooming jasmine, and many others. 

The reason I'm saying contact allergy -- look at the nose/mouth.  I can't see a super clear picture of the mouth but what little I can see in that one the edges of the mouth look pink?  And the nose/end of snout is definitely pink.  That's a HUGE clue to a contact allergen -- they try to lick everywhere the contact allergen has touched them, and the allergen itself comes off on their mouth and nose.

My guess would be that it's a grass or a weed.  Much depends on the belly -- if it's on the belly then I'm going to guess it's something garden variety common like St. Augustine Sod because you would all track that in on YOUR shoes as well, and so it's going to be on all your carpets, etc. (and would have been anywhere she was previously)

However -- if the belly is clear (no inflammation) then it's more likely something she walks thru where humans don't routinely walk --

If you want to holler at me, I can walk you thru some of this.  You want to start with a serious bath (not one, but frequent baths) in something like benzoyl peroxide -- or even Selsun Blue.  It will "degrease" enough to break the contact allergen, and yet it will also be healing for the yeast that is started on the skin.

Contact allergy can also come into play when there are always a basis for allergies or infection ... The atopic allergy creates the problem internally -- but THEN you've got a dog with itchy paws  that are driving him wild ... he's licking & biting them non-stop which then creates a yeast infection (warm, moist sore skin) .  Now you've got lovely "open" SORE skin -- and they walk thru some weed that frankly wouldn't bother them if they were healthy but with the skin already somewhat sore?  YIPES.

Go to my photos -- Tink had contact allergy when we first got involved.  There's a pic of her belly -- but what you almost can't see is that the hair on her legs was thin exactly like that, the joints were all sore like that and the undercarriage was all sore -- you take marginally sore skin and add a contact allergen TO it and you've got a SORE dog.

The sore snout is a big huge red flag to me.  The rest of the coat looks pretty good. 

But what I'm actually saying is, this isn't one thing - I'm betting it's TWO. 

Honestly we need to talk -- I can walk you thru how to bathe and that, alone, will tell you a whole lot.  But I can tell you what to use that will help that.

The FIRST thing I'd put on that skin is pure aloe.  do you have an aloe plant?  I can tell you how to harvest the goo out of the inside of the leaves and that will help take a lot of that inflammation down.

next thing -- I'd tell you to get a box of baby wipes or even just Scottie or Cottonelle wipes and keep by the door -- every single itme she comes in, wipe off the feet and joints.  You can do this with a small bowl of tea and an old cotton terrycloth hand towel (not paper towel -- you want something you can wash hard  -- with either baking soda or ammonia in the wash water (it cuts grease and you want to get rid fo the contact allergen)

Be cautious -- you don't want to wipe it from one joint and get it on another.  Rinse frequently or use new wipes frequently.

Well, I don't know that he doesn't have allergies, but he DOES have sarcoptic mange. So hopefully that is the only problem, but I won't know until we get it cleared up. He got one dose of Revolution last Wednesday night, and they said to do the next dose in 3 weeks. He is still on heavy doses of Benadryl and probably will be until after the next application of Revolution. He is soooooo itchy, it hurts me to see him hurt

Thanks Callie! You're awesome. Your posts are so helpful and informative. I hope we are not dealing with allergies but if he stays itchy after the scabies clears up, I will definitely contact you. Do you have any tips for helping him through the mange?

Bless his heart, sending non-itchy vibes  your way!

Hmm, Revolution is SO not my favorite.  I'd be using ivermectin if it were me and/or Lyme Dip.  Lyme Dip is going to help immediately -- smells yucky (it's got sulphur in it) but it kills on contact (and you can use it on your skin if YOU feel itchy after dealing with it). Revolution stays in the body the whole month.  Theoretically it should kill all of them within the 3 week period.

I won't use anything systemic (stuff that stays in the body) -- it's too risky for me (because you never truly know when it it is "out" of the body).  So I won't use Advantage Multi, Promers, Revolution -- I don't even use Comfortis because it's systemic (had too may problems with auto-immune diseases to be honest -- I don't want to set us up for them).

I wouldn't use ivermectin *with* Revolution.  But I would think you could use Lyme-Dip because it stays topical.

I would also put him on milk thistle -- lots of it -- for probably 3 months.  (Gettng it in bulk is WAY Cheaper -- the capsules are pricey and you can get way more in bulk for what one bottle would cost you.  And you'd need several bottles to go that far).  Revolution is very hard on the liver -- discovered that with Tinkerbell. 

You want to give about 3 milk thistle capsules two times a day -- that's about 3/4 teas. of milk thistle powder.  A bottle of the caps (about 60 -80 of them) is about $20 and that's about 1 1/4 oz of milk thistle powder.  You can get a pound of powder in bulk for $18 and $20 will get you the organic one.  Email me if you want a company name.  You can't just walk into a health store and buy bulk -- there are lots of places to get it online but DO buy the best brand you can find. 

I almost asked about sarcops -- but sarcops doesn't usually pattern like that -- you'll see thin coat in lots of places, but not particularly on joints like that. 

They wouldn't dip him because of the neuter the same day - I'm not sure exactly why but I'm kind of glad they didn't because *I* am highly allergic to the stuff (arms swell like inner tubes). However, his skin has actually gotten worse since those pictures, and I'm not sure the Benadryl is helping as much as it was. So I'm exploring other options. Fortunately I have milk thistle on hand - hopefully enough to get him through this. But I will definitely keep in mind to buy it in bulk for the future.