Whipworms ( Update With What Copper & Lucky Have )

Diane -- read the whole thread, it will help you.

When a dog has hooks or whips (and I thot you said Gibby had hooks -- they are *not* the same but they spread the same way) -- where ever they go in the yard it will transmit the parasites.  So every single inch of your soil doesn't have the parasites but it's pretty hard to know what does. 

So he won't re-infect himself constantly -- but when the weather conditions are right and he goes in that spot, he will get them **again**.   Not that he is constantly infected -- but he can get them *again*.

Once you've had a dog with whips or hooks and it's pottied in your yard, you always have to assume they can get them again because no pesticide will eradicate them.

They (both hooks and whips) spread THRU THE FEET.  You aren't going to get them in your bed -- but walking barefoot outside (you walking barefoot) will do it.  They shed the parasites in their poop - and then if you walk barefoot where they pooped (months ago) you can get it.

Inside you have to clean with bleach.  Particularly hard surfaces (if the dog has had an accident like Daisyprincess's dog has) like floors.

I honestly don't know about dog bedding. 

Callie I did read the whole thread...word by word. 

Gibby had Whip worms and round worms when diagnosed in Oct 2009.    After weeks ( or was it months ) of Panacur a stool check was negative.  But many months later when he had problems.... a stool check was positive for the Whips again.  Since then he has had no diarrhea or problems..... but will get him checked again soon when I get his HW test. He does go in our yard in the AM which is picked up immediately ( because that is what I do as I have him leashed and pick it up as soon as he goes ) but does his second time during walks which is also picked up.  But I thought by what you said in this thread,  that they don't get rid of them..and I was just asking to be sure that I understood that correctly.  Somehow...I blame this one day care for them to begin with. When I took him the first time I asked to see the outside part of the place where it is all fenced in with stockade fences.......but they said they could not show me that day becasue they had only one person and had to watch the dogs too carefully....I never DID see that area and I always felt it was becuase maybe it was not picked up too carefully or so??????  I don't take him there anymore for play days...but I do take him to Camp Bow Wow which is much much more trustworthy.

In case anyone is interested in reading a description of the different intestinal parasites and how they are spread.  BTW, whipworms are spread by a dog ingesting the eggs that are shed in a dog's stool, not by penetrating the feet or skin.  You can keep your own yard completely free of stool, etc and your dog can still pick up parasites if it goes anywhere that other dogs go.  Having your dog checked once a year for worms is a good idea and of course if you see any symptoms, take a fresh stool sample in for your vet to check.

http://www.vet.ksu.edu/depts/vmth/PDF/common_parasites.pdf

JackieG

BTW, whipworms are spread by a dog ingesting the eggs that are shed in a dog's stool, not by penetrating the feet or skin. 

Huh???  Gibby not one of the dogs that do that..........and when I take him to day care.... I take his food in a container that he eats out.  Now I have to wonder....when he goes to the dog park he likes to play with a tennis ball....thats HIS reason for going there.....and its all mulch that they put down and no grass...he is always getting mulch in his mouth....and it gets yucky...wonder if that is how it can be spread.   I have never heard of anyone else saying their dog had worms though.........but we only went a few times last year.

JackieG

BTW, whipworms are spread by a dog ingesting the eggs that are shed in a dog's stool, not by penetrating the feet or skin

Yes... you are absolutely right, not sure where my head was on that one, Hooks are able to go through the feet and skin, whips are not, my bad. Thanks for the correction... that's a good resource.

 Great link Jackie

(Bugsy had worms as a pup can't recall which ones but sounds like the tapeworms - you could see them clearly wiggling around *shudders*  - we got that sorted out immediately LOL)

dyan

But I thought by what you said in this thread,  that they don't get rid of them..

Somehow I apparently wasn't clear - sorry!  It's NOT that they don't get rid of them -- it's that you can't get rid of them **in the yard**.  They stay in the soil.

And a dog doesn't have to directly eat another dog's poop -- not at all.  It simply has to ingest the *eggs* -- meaning the eggs can be in the soil (and usually are -- the eggs may be in poop but they can also shed the parasites in stool which then lay eggs in the yard (at least that's what my vet explained to me).  It can be as simple as the dog dives for a tennis ball and comes up with half a mouthfull of grass and dirt??  Or licking their feet when they've been outside anywhere eggs are ...

I know I've had both hooks and whips in my yard now for about 13 years -- and I've tried to be darned fastidious about making sure the dogs were dosed monthly with Interceptor or similar (in a dose high enough to kill hooks/whips) and the only time I've had a huge problem was with Kee Shu.  She was elderly and just didn't have *any* immune system to fight them off either.  We caught hooks (not whips that time -- *just* the hookworm) twice in her in the four years she was with us.  I know the artciel says they can live 5-7 years and I think they mean they can be dormant that long and still live -- but then all it has to do is fulfill it's life cycle in a dog (or squirrel, possum, coon, etc) and more eggs then get deposited back in the soil -- it's my understanding they are can attack most any animal that is warm blooded (not just dogs, cats or humans).

dyan

When I took him the first time I asked to see the outside part of the place where it is all fenced in with stockade fences.......but they said they could not show me that day becasue they had only one person and had to watch the dogs too carefully....I never DID see that area and I always felt it was becuase maybe it was not picked up too carefully or so?????? 

Dog Parks for sure, but also groomers, vets, doggie daycare -- ALL those places are easy places to get hooks/whips.  There's just no way to be 100% fastidious about picking up every single time.

My old vet (which is where I got all the information from after we lost Mike tha Dog 13 years ago) told me he actually replaced the sod around his clinic every three months specifically to get rid of things like hooks/whips and to try to curb things like parvo/distemper as well.  It's one of those hidden costs of having a vet clinic we never think of -- but a huge majority of people never "pick up" when the dog elminates before they go in a vet clinic.

I didn't knowingly let hooks/whips get in my yard -- and even replacing ALL the sod 4 years ago didn't get rid of them (and I foolishly kinda hoped it would).  Those eggs go DEEP and the larveal stage of one or the other is incredibly hardy and they can apparently lie dormant for a LONG time just waiting for the right climate to be active.

But this is simply one of the reasons why I use a monthly parasite preventive that doesn't *just* work on heartworm -- because here in the South parasites are SO darned prevalent.  They are in lots of other places too, but we have fertile ground 12 months out of the danged year.

dyan

Since then he has had no diarrhea or problems..... but will get him checked again soon when I get his HW test.

Just a last note -- you can see diarrhea (or bloody diarrhea) in either case (and with other parasites) -- but you don't always see diarrhea at all.  I never did with Mike -- hooks (and I'm not sure about whips) don't confine themselves to the intestinal tract -- but they can spread to other organs.  I'm not super knowledgeable about how -- but I know Doc told me back when we lost Mike that the parasites had attacked his liver, in particular and caused internal bleeding apparently.  It was my first experience with such stuff and I've never quite gotten over being overly paranoid about it because we never saw it coming.

They *diagnose* it by examining a fecal sample -- and the article Jackie posted doesn't address it specifically, but it's my understanding they can affect other organs (not just the digestive tract).

But Dyan -- you would never know just by looking at a yard if there were parasites there.  They are invisible.  Now, you might see that the yard was a foul mess and decide that just wasn't where you wanted him to be -- but even a yard that *looked* nice wouldn't necessarily be safe -- does that make sense?

Thanks for all the help.

I know picking up their poop I never noticed anything but when Daisy I'm guessing the first time it was her who did it on the porch that blood poop I had no idea if it was actually blood or from her food or what and I didn't know which one actually did it.  But with her doing that a second time and my mom knowing it was Daisy I'm glad I took her into the vet because it was alot of blood I took a picture of it the first time. Odd thing is she did it in the same spot. Both times I never seen anything that looked like a worm in the poop tho.

Both the vets said it can be ingested also they said thats how humans would probably get it by ingesting an egg that's infected. I'm just glad we caught it and hopefully it stays under control. I think I'll be changing their meds tho I have notice their itching now since giving them the Trifexis once their done with that med I think I'll get the Interceptor and the new K9 Advantix II

Thanks again for all the help

Both Interceptor and Trifexis have the active ingredient milbemycin oxime, this is for parasites, including heartworm.  The other ingredient in Trifexis is spinosa and that is the flea product.  My dogs take Comfortis for fleas which is made by the same company that makes Trifexis and also has spinosa as the active ingredient for flea control.  I've had no flea problems since I've been using it and I live in a part of the country that has fleas year round and mosquitos.  None of my dogs have ever had any sort of reaction, FWIW.

daisyprincess

Both times I never seen anything that looked like a worm in the poop tho.

You can't -- these are microscopic organisms - you couldn't SEE a thing, no way.

daisyprincess

humans would probably get it by ingesting an egg that's infected

And people think "*I* don't eat poop!!  Ridiculous!" -- most people get it thru their skin (and thru any open cut for sure) just walking barefoot (anywhere -- in the house or outside).  Or touching something and then wiping your face or mouth.  These are tiny un-seeable microscopic organisms -- you can't see anything like that at all with your eye.

daisyprincess

Interceptor and the new K9 Advantix II

Advantix has had a ton of bad reactions -- and it's made by Bayer (which is part of what Ft. Dodge is now).  Remember I"m in Florida, too and I'm having pretty darned good luck with plain old Advantage (I get it right from Dog.com actually). 

calliecritturs

Advantix has had a ton of bad reactions -- and it's made by Bayer (which is part of what Ft. Dodge is now).  Remember I"m in Florida, too and I'm having pretty darned good luck with plain old Advantage (I get it right from Dog.com actually). 

To be fair, Advantage is also made by Bayer.  Also, Advantix is not safe for cats, so if you have cats in the house I would not use it. (I don't know if you do have cats, but for any lurkers out there, be aware).

erica1989

Comfortis is the BEST out there for controlling fleas.

There are possible side effects.  I don't know how wise it would be to give Comfortis to a breed known to have problems with bloating.  Comfortis has been known to produce vomiting so violent as to produce torsion of the stomach.

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Comfortis-prod11039.html
"The following adverse reactions may occur: vomiting; depression/lethargy; anorexia; ataxia (loss of coordination); diarrhea; pruritis (itchiness); trembling; hypersalivation; and seizures."

http://www.examiner.com/pet-health-in-atlanta/comfortis-flea-treatment-causes-vomiting-and-death-dogs
"An owner of six Boxers gave Comfortis to his dogs. One of them started throwing up within a couple of hours, and again the next morning. Another Boxer named Mia started throwing up in the morning, too. She vomited so intensely that she tore her stomach loose and it twisted.  Her owners rushed her to the emergency vet, only three miles away from their house. By the time they got there they were too late and Mia passed away."

Thanks for the info on Comfortis, Janet.  None of my dogs has ever shown any sign of nausea after taking Comfortis.  If they had or if they ever do, I'll stop using it.  Belle in particular is deep chested and Rex is too but less extreme than Belle.  A friend of mine can't give it to one of her Labs due to vomiting. Every one of these products have risks and it's always good to read and understand what the possible side effects are.  Most dogs seem to tolerate it well.  I always feel like it's a damn shame that we have to give our dogs insecticides in any form. :(