Nikon's ears AGAIN, please help brainstorm

Liesje

The first time I took Nikon to the vet for this (just before he turned 1), it was summer and they said it was fly strike. 

This was the first thing I thought of as well.  We had this problem with one of my late GSDs.  I kept an ointment on the edges of his ears to prevent the pests.  But that dog lived outside for the most part.  Nikon lives indoors where you would actually see if/when he's being pestered and chewed on.  That's what it looks like...like something is chewing on him.

The other thought that comes to my mind when it comes to ears is diet.  But, not sure it applies here...usually a diet that results in bad ears is affecting the ear canals more than anything.  Another experience I had with another late GSD is bad diet = bad ears.  Vast improvement when putting him on a different food.

I would try something just plain easy and simple first.  Get a bottle of high quality tea tree oil (health store -- about $10) and massage a drop into any of the red areas and ear tips at least once a day. 

Tea tree is an anti-fungal and an antibacterial.  It's got super good healing properties but it's just plain simple.  It should also help with the itch. 

 I know you're not one for 'natural' stuff -- but sometimes something simple can be the answer.

We never were able to pin point an actual cause for sure.  But, Willow had that exact same thing happen to the tips of her ears too-this was years ago-when she was probably around Nikon's age.  We tried many topical things and they also thought it was fly-strike.  I didn't believe that at all since she hardly spent time outdoors then.  But, it seemed to disappear as mysteriously as it came on. 

Edited to add-Willow did get diagnosed with an immune problem not long after-so something to keep in mind.  It could have absolutely nothing to do with it though.

Edited again to say-the hair all grew back. 

Someone on another board posted about her dog having Ear Margin Dermatosis.  Could that be it?  When I Googled it, I came up with this page from Merk about all kinds of skin stuff with the ears.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/30800.htm

Barb, I think at the time they were right to initially suspect fly strike (and he does get bugs on his ears in the summer so I have to watch for that), but you're right, he's an indoor dog and we certainly do not have flies in the dead of winter, which was when this latest outbreak started.

I'm a little curious as to what happens when we move, if he has some sort of contact allergy to something in our home.  Though that wouldn't explain why it is only his ears that are affected.  It seems like an allergy would eventually spread and he'd be itchy all over.

As for food, he can eat anything.  I use the California Natural LIDs and usually get the Lamb and Rice but have used the fish and chicken ones as well.  Sometimes I feed the dogs people scraps like raw egg, raw venison (frozen for several months to kill off bacteria), cottage cheese, beef marrow bones, and leftover soup/stew.  Since there's only DH and I, people will give us too much food and anytime something is about to spoil I add it to the dogs' food rather than have it go to waste (as long as it's not too fatty or has onion).   Nikon has been through about three different types/brands of kibble since I've had him and has done fine on any of them.  Coke and Kenya are more prone to upset tummies, so I switched everyone to the LIDs a while back, it's just easier to feed all the dogs the same thing.  So, I could switch again, but I'm not sure it would matter since Nikon has had these issues almost his entire life.

Micksmom - It is ear margin dermatitis but that does not diagnose the underlying cause, if that makes sense?  It's like having "hives", but you don't just GET hives, there has to be some underlying reason for it.

Lori, that sounds the same.  Glad Willow's hair came back!  Nikon's always has too, but this bout has been more severe than the previous ones.  I supposed it's a good thing I'm done showing him!  He looks like he's getting in dog fights and having his ears ripped. :(

Callie, I'm not inherently against natural remedies but he's already been on multiple anti-fungal creams and they haven't done anything.  And if they did, I'd still be curious as to the root cause and how to prevent it rather than having to constantly treat the recurring symptoms.

We didn't find mites in his scraping and you'd think if a dog had mites for two years it would spread, but one thing I will ask the vet is whether to just try a mange treatment?  That's pretty much the only thing we haven't tried (done anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, topical steroid cream, bug repellents...).

Wow it sure does look just like fly strike, but you are right that it's unlikely in winter! But, I do have three dogs that get something similar (throughout the year & in the dead of winter). Khoale and Oly get it and it's just as you described and matches your pics. When you pull the hair in the area it comes out easily and leaves a raw spot?

I like this spray - It doesn't give you answers as to root cause though: http://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/vetericyn-vf We use it on treatment resistant wounds/infections and it does well.

I'm kind of surprised they didnt' find ear mites, but I'm glad you did that testing. I'm not much help, but I have seen it, mine don't get it as bad as him typically. Let me know if you get any answers, i'm quite interested.

When I pull the scabs off the hairy parts of the ears, there's just pink skin.  It's not really that raw (there are a few raw patches now but I suspect that is more from him scratching).  It dries out quickly.  I can sit there and scrape at the ear tips with my fingernails and could probably take all the hair off fairly quickly and just have dry skin left behind.

The spots inside the ears where there is no hair, those are more raw.  They start like a little red bump under the skin, like a pimple, and then seem to burst so that there is a little bloody scab left.  It seems he is itching this area more, hence the raw spots right inside the ear where his nails catch.  He doesn't seem as bothered by the spots on the tips, though if I scratch off and piece he sometimes moans or starts kicking his leg like they do when you're itching them.

You may want to try a combination of lavendar, sweet almond oil and neem oil.  Often recommended as a mange/mite treatment by holistic vets.  It's very soothing, kills and repels mites, flies, etc...and it will also promote healing of the scabs.

Liesje

I'm a little curious as to what happens when we move, if he has some sort of contact allergy to something in our home.  Though that wouldn't explain why it is only his ears that are affected.  It seems like an allergy would eventually spread and he'd be itchy all over.

Allergies can be quite mysterious.  How everybuddy is affected can be quite different from one dog to another...same with people.  Same allergy can affect differently.  I had a GSD once who was quite sickly to begin with.  He had allergies so badly he was virtually furless...at varying times of the year.  We never figured out what he was allergic to.  However, when we moved from that house to another......VOILA!  Allergies were gone, fur came back in full coat, never had a problem again.  So, yeah, it will be quite interesting to see how the different house/property could affect.

Liesje

We didn't find mites in his scraping and you'd think if a dog had mites for two years it would spread, but one thing I will ask the vet is whether to just try a mange treatment? 

It's definitely not demodex, and it's not sarcops if he's not going out of his mind itching (and that's *not* a place sarcoptic mites would congregate first).

If it were ear mites you'd see something that looks like coffee grounds in the ears.  But honestly?  That's about it as far as "mange" stuff goes -- but trust me - that is NOT demodex.  Absolutely not.  Not the right place, not the right look, not the right time.

 Going off the pictures and info my first thought was vasculitis.

 Yes, I'm quite certain it is ear margin dermatitis > due to vasculitis >  but caused by ?????????

Liesje--this website might be worth checking out: http://www.rr-oona.com/SkinDiseases/earmargin/earmargin-main-ENG.html

It is a good site, been there many times, but again I'm looking for any help pinpointing the underlying cause, or trying to find anyone that has ahd a similar experience and came to a conclusive diagnosis.  Having dermatitis is like saying my husband has seizures or I have frequent headaches.  It describes a condition but doesn't narrow down the reason and makes it difficult to treat properly when the root cause is not known.

We do have a vet appt. on the 28th, I'm waiting for the vet I prefer to use for diagnostics.